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How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Coyote_Hunter_
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

Mostly, yes, I carry concealed with handloads.

Why? Because that is what I have on hand and that is what I practice with.

I don't expect I'll ever pull my gun but if I do the legal ramifications of 'factory or handloaded' will be the least of my worries.

As they say, "Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by six."

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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

Any round is deadly depending on placement to include .22 short. I have some .38spl loads that are running about 700-725fps. they are LRN 158gr. I use them for plinking and rabbits yet, these slow moving light loads are able to punch through 3-4" of dried seasoned oak. are they deadly...hell yeah!!!

Factory, Remington UMC, 125gr .357mag loads running at 1450fps m.v. carrying a m.e. of 583 ft. lbs. That's twice the power of my "plinking" loads.

The loads I'm developing for my carry weapon are 125gr XTP running about 1050-1100fps. Though they aren't as powerful as the factory loads, you're saying that I would be more liable using my loads over the more powerful factory loads.

As far as the burden of proof on the loads if I needed to use them in self defence. Any ballistics tech. worth his merit would be able to test and verify that my rounds are in fact reduced loads having less power than
the average factory load.

Dead is dead no matter what type of load you use.

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

d_hoffman wrote:

Dead is dead no matter what type of load you use.

My sentiments exactly!!

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

d_hoffman wrote:

The loads I'm developing for my carry weapon are 125gr XTP running about 1050-1100fps. Though they aren't as powerful as the factory loads, you're saying that I would be more liable using my loads over the more powerful factory loads.
.

Yes. Sounds absurd doesn't it? But, yes, you would be in a more difficult position before a criminal or civil jury than if you used factory ammo. The reasons have been cited, the questions asked and answered; review the previous posts.

The problem "d hoffman" is one most of us share -- we are trying to use logic in what is often an illogical and emotionally charged situation. If, however, you wish to use handloads for personal defense, I recommend you make sure the jury of your peers are reloaders, too. Then, the cross exam may be more of why you chose a particular powder and why (why!) you didn't use a better bullet! (sidenote: your lower power loads could increase the possibility of NOT killing someone and increase the possibility of maiming or crippling for life. The latter is far more critical to sympathetic juries in terms of compensatory rewards. Those rewards come from your pocketbook for life.)

But, its America and we make these choices for ourselves, which I fully support. I believe that it is important that we recognize the consequences of choices and. the consequences of carrying reloaded ammo for self defense has shown it to be disadvantageous. Candidly, it may be a minor issue relative to the impact of having to actually shoot and possibly kill someone, yet, it is one item that we can have the effect of reducing complications if the situation arose.
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Joe Boleo
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:06 am    Post subject: The debate goes on Reply with quote

You have to survive a self-defense situation before you may be charged and sued. As I said in the prior post, we can be sued at any time for any reason or no reason today.

Consider the absurd situation where one had only a muzzleloader in a self-defense situation. Would they be more liable because they used a deadly load of 90 grains of FFG instead of a more reasonable 80 grain charge? Nonsense!

To cite a New Jersey case is a stretch. In that state, the possession of hollowpoint handgun bullets can be a felony. My advice is to stay out of New Jersey. If the use of handloads in self-fedense is such a big liability issue, why were numerous cases not cited? I hope to be selected for a jury where a law-abiding citizen used handloads in self-defense and facing "liability". They would never get a conviction. Take care....
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

Lawyers have been twisting things around for years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why take the chance of being the guy that has new case law created just because you wanted to save a couple of bucks on ammo.

Its not like the factory ammo isn't capable or reliable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think they have proven themselfs on the issue.
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Grayfox97128
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

I'm quite sure that I will be very happy to use whatever ammo I happen to have if a desperate situation happens.
I am more concerned that I might have left my sidearm in my truck when something bad happens. There are places where it is illegal to have a sidearm, so I put it in a safe place in my truck, then forget for a time to re-arm myself. Being a property manager I visit several different low-income apartment complexes daily. When I look around and am surrounded by wana be gang bangers and I have forgotten my sidearm it can make your skin crawl. In 25 years I have never had to draw my sidearm even though I have been in many confrontations. My sidearm is a last resort, if something bad happens my only thoughts are going to be "do I have enough ammo" not " handload or factory"
I want to live.........
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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

wtf I use reloaded ammo in all of my firearms-concealed carry or hunting,or competitive.I load just about all of my ammo the same-for accuracy-not hot loads,so I guess that would mean for performance!Now consider how absurd this would sound if some attourney would try to make a case of why you would use an AR-15 with hollow point varmint hunting ammo to stop a bad guy who was trying to do you or a family member(serious,grievous )bodily harm-as opposed to using FMJ ammo as authorised by the geneva convention?#!-I'm not in the military,#2 I'm not going to take the time to reload the magazine,#3 where is the lawyer to stop the fight,or step in front of the bullet?answer sitting on his butt digging thru case law trying to find some minor excuse to make his argument sound like the most plausible reason that you really wanted to murder someone.Sounds like the lawyer should be in the cell next to the bad guy!Oh and in the case of modified bullets-just for an example;look at glaser safety slugs-oversimplification:someone shooting you with a small shotgun at point blank(muzzle)range,or hydro shocks,or many others that impart tremendous tissue damage to stop bad guys. Lawyers should read the medical examiners reports instead of playing dr phil in court! Mad
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Doublejs
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

The only guns I buy ammo for is the ones I carry. I still use reloads at the range, but factory if carrying. I'm sure a lawer could somehow ruin me if I ever had to shoot someone in self defense. Heck, they go after people that shoot people breaking into their own home!
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

The purpose of carrying a concealed weapon is to LIVE through a deadly encounter. Now if I could carry a .50 BMG pistol with explosive warheads for defense I would. I pick what seems to work best for ME. And no, I haven't ever had to shoot anyone so I'm making my best guess as to what "works", based on my reading and shooting experiences.

Some of my loads are warmer than factory loads (.45 Colt for example), some match factory loads (9mm, .40 S&W) and some are milder than factory loads (.357 Magnum). It depends in the gun I loaded them for.

I do know that I'm not letting some lawyer someplace determine what I can use to defend my family or myself.

As Forrest Gump would say "That's all I have to say about that."

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Coyote_Hunter_
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

One thing for sure, no matter WHAT kind of ammo was in the mag - if I was going someplace where I thought I might actually NEED the gun for defensive purposes, I would make DAMN SURE I went SOMEWHERE ELSE instead.

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RPM1031
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

COYOTE HUNTER, Don't like to get off subject but this is a little on topic. I read that Northfork is closing their doors. Sorry to hear that.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

I carry handloads in my CC weapon. The reason I do is because they are the most accurate round I can find. If I have to use a gun to defend myself or those I love then i want to know that I am going to hit what I aim at. I always practice with my reloads, I have the utmost confidence in my reloads, If I have to pull the trigger to save my life or someone else's do you want to be standing next to the bad guy if I am using unfamiliar or inaccurate ammunition?
THAT is why I use my handloads. It might be my wife or kid next to that guy - and he is going to die. I will let God determine his guilt. My job is just to keep myself and my family safe.

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

Allow one more observation on the subject and then I'll shut up.

There are acclaimed tactical and personal defense academies nationwide such as the ones by SIG, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch for example. Too, we have learned professionals that often offer advise in various gun magazines. Mossad Ayoub (sp?), Jim Wilson, John Taffin all come immediately to mind and some participate in active on line forums.

With these divergent sources there is a unanimous opinion regarding ammo for personal defense. Factory. period.
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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: How many use Re-Loads for their concealed carry weapon? Reply with quote

No. My instructor said it is best to use factory ammo, because if you ever do have to use your gun, you do not want some lawyer trying to tell the jury that you reload your shells because the factory stuff is not dangerous enough to the attacker.
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