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"Putting turkey to bed"
Small Game hunting related discussion
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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
Bushmaster wrote:
Aah for crying out loud, Vince...I'm 65 and proud of it. He's 52 and probably can't keep up with me. I hike the Ozarks with a 54 year old and I have to slow down for him..."...well, just a little older then me.". Nice try, Vince....

Yeah, I know buddy, but its only the outer shell that's 65....everything else is half that age ain't it?

Cheers, Vince

So he's got 32 1/2 year old squishy innards?

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Oh, HJ...you are one sick puppy for a thought or picture like that to even pop into your mind. ROFL

Nothin' squishy about Bushy....he's a retired squid. Hooha. Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
Oh, HJ...you are one sick puppy for a thought or picture like that to even pop into your mind. ROFL

You aint the first to think that....

Vince wrote:
Nothin' squishy about Bushy....he's a retired squid. Hooha. Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

For that the entire country owes him a debt.........

Mr. Bushmaster,

I thank You for your service to this country!

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Fine I'll Google it. Laughing

Quote::
Eastern (Meleagris gallopavo silvestris)
Range covers the entire eastern half of the United States; extending also into South Eastern Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritime Provinces in Canada.

Osceola or Florida (M. g. osceola)
Found only on the Florida peninsula.

Rio Grande (M. g. intermedia)
Ranges through Texas to Oklahoma, Kansas, New Mexico, Colorado, Oregon, and Central and Western California, as well as parts of a few northeastern states.

Merriam's (M. g. merriami)
Ranges through the Rocky Mountains and the neighboring prairies of Wyoming, Montana and South Dakota as well as much of the high mesa country of New Mexico.

Gould's (M. g. mexicana)
Native from central to northern Mexico and the southern-most parts of Arizona and New Mexico.

South Mexican (M. g. gallopavo)
The nominate race, and one of the few that are not found in North America.

Dimitri

You didn't get the pictures??

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gobbuster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

How ya doin Demitri,
before I get to the subject i just want to say I mean absolutly no disrespect toward you or your findings. I would further more like to say that I consider you to be a highly intelligent individual of whom I have learned from just since joining this oragnization.
I made a bet with a friend of mine about 10 years ago about the species of turkey, and although it didn't include the Florida, Mexican, or the Goulds I read that the Rio Grande, Easterns, and the Merriams are all actually the same species that have adapted to the enviromental differences such as terrian, weather, relevant predators of their geographic location causing some very subtle coloration differences. I'm not debating it with you at all Demitri, I to saw the same descriptive material your showing me now. But if you would research a little more, as I will, I'm thinking you will find some additional biological research that shows the some what controversial findings I've mentioned. I managed to win the bet based on the study I referenced even though there was additional reference to substantiate the species description you've included in this writting. I think what I am saying is that there seems to be some question among biologists that has resulted in varying facts. I've visually examined those three species very closely and have found them to be quite indistinguishable from one another visually.
Gobbuster
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Gob,

That was a cut and paste job so no matter how much you do not like that information it doesn't bother me its not my information. Laughing

Dimitri

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Meeker
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Gob,
Good news: Dimitri's information is correct. And as for your position on the various groups of turkeys, you are correct as well.

Scientifically speaking, all of the wild turkey populations listed are of the same species, i.e.: Meleagris gallopavo. The regional specific adaptations that you have described for each different group sets them apart from one another, and are scientifically described further as to seperate them into sub-species i.e.: Eastern (Meleagris gallopavo silvestris), Osceola or Florida (M. g. osceola), Rio Grande (M. g. intermedia), Merriam's (M. g. merriami), Gould's (M. g. mexicana), South Mexican (M. g. gallopavo).

The confusing issue is that the birds do not recognize state boundaries, and it could be possible for say a merriam's sub-species to exist in northern Colorado, and a Rio Grande to exist in southern Wyoming. Furthermore, individual state wildlife agencies may have transplanted say an Eastern sub-species imported form a nearby state to expand or improve turkey populations in an area which you theoretically find a Rio Grande.

I hope this helps you, and sorry if I have confused the issue further for you.

Brett
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Not to mention the re-population of areas by man...If memory serves, the USSRofC re-established two different sub-species in that state...the USSRofC have to do this on ocassion because they "people manage" rather then "game manage"

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Meeker wrote:
Gob,
Good news: Dimitri's information is correct. And as for your position on the various groups of turkeys, you are correct as well.

Scientifically speaking, all of the wild turkey populations listed are of the same species, i.e.: Meleagris gallopavo. The regional specific adaptations that you have described for each different group sets them apart from one another, and are scientifically described further as to seperate them into sub-species i.e.: Eastern (Meleagris gallopavo silvestris), Osceola or Florida (M. g. osceola), Rio Grande (M. g. intermedia), Merriam's (M. g. merriami), Gould's (M. g. mexicana), South Mexican (M. g. gallopavo).

The confusing issue is that the birds do not recognize state boundaries, and it could be possible for say a merriam's sub-species to exist in northern Colorado, and a Rio Grande to exist in southern Wyoming. Furthermore, individual state wildlife agencies may have transplanted say an Eastern sub-species imported form a nearby state to expand or improve turkey populations in an area which you theoretically find a Rio Grande.

I hope this helps you, and sorry if I have confused the issue further for you.

Brett

So if I understand this...


they are the same SPECIES...

but a different SUB-SPECIES....

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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

hunterjoe21 wrote:
gobbuster wrote:
Hi hunterjoe21,
You are absolutly correct, and the birds you have are eastern merriams. They are the exact species of our merriams, just called eastern merriams due to the geography. Gobbuster

Without doing the research to identify each one,(I'm sure Big D will Google It) the Eastern subspecies is different from the Merriam's, which is different from the Rio, which is again different than the Osceola (a GRAND SLAM if you kill all 4 in one hunting season). Add in the Goulds(a SUPER SLAM), and some other one from Mexico(the name escapes me every time I try to think of it)(which makes it a WORLD SLAM), and you have several different birds out there.

Hunting methods, including the calls used, are very similar for each of the sub-species though.

Gobs,

notice that each was identified as a SUB-Species....

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gobbuster
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

I never implied or suggested I didn't like your information Demitri. Your awfully sensitive to what was only my intent to generate some further research and findings on this subject matter based on my findings, right or wrong. And yes, these birds are all scientifically the same species and have been sub devided according to the geographical adaptation of which we see with many different animals such as the kodiak bear, brown bear, and the grizzly. Your opinion is always welcome and valued here, so don't be so easily offended because others want to comment on their findings or opinions Sir.
Gobbuster
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Gob,

I wasn't being offended or sensitive, I was commenting on the "I mean absolutly no disrespect toward you" that you said before you mentioned they were all the same species really, and I was just commenting that its not my own opinion/information in the matter, so I cannot be offended. Laughing

Dimitri

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torasperry
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Hey, Group
Why can't we have a Turkey Hunting Forum?
I really enjoy turkey hunting and I'm sure there are a lot more who like
hunting the Ole Gobbler too!
Almost every state has some kind of Turkey to hunt and Yea I'd like to do a Super Slam.
Let me hear from you on this subject.....
What do you think, Dallan?
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gobbuster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

Torasperry, I really like your handle. It is very descriptive of us turkey hunters. And I like your idea to have a turkey hunting forum. well Torasperry, I guide turkey hunts and if you would like to arrange a Super Slam for this Spring hunt coming up I'll offer my expertise at absolutly "No Charge". I'm not financially very well off so I wouldn't be able to finance my travel. And all I want out of the hunt is to help a few guys get their birds, I get nearly as much out of that as I do actually killing them my self. I've personally killed more than 30 birds of my own, and sucessfully guided upward of 80 hunts. I can guarentee you will have the opportunity to get your birds.
Gobbuster
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gobbuster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: "Putting tirkey to bed" Reply with quote

I've developed a deadly shotgun load for the turkey. Its a magnum 2 3/4 inch copper plated BB load that will easily drop a Gob at over 50 yards. In fact I've taken Gobs at over 70 yards on 2 occassions with these 1600+ fps loads. It probably doesn't sound like a typical turkey load to most. But I've found that by sacrificing the larger 3" or 3 1/2" load for the 2 3/4 " offers a much harder hitting load. I had to develope this load when Remington stop manufacturing their copper plated BB Nitro Magnum. They still make the #2 and smaller loaded Nitro mags, but not copper plated any more.
Gobbuster( Turkey buster translated)
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