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Ordered a new M-14
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

Hey Phil next time you do a big chunk of pork on the grill try this. First marinade it over night with cinnamon apple sauce. Also soak some mesquite and sugar maple chips in southern comfort (but first for good luck you need to take a drink of it before you use it) then slow cook it over the soaked wood chips. Make sure you save the apple sauce for basting. Mix in a little SoCo and brown sugar with the apple sauce.

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

I cant afford an 18 year old.......Scotch either. Laughing Shocked
What brand do you drink Vince? I drink Glenlivet.

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FALPhil
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

d_hoffman wrote:
Also soak some mesquite and sugar maple chips in southern comfort (but first for good luck you need to take a drink of it before you use it) then slow cook it over the soaked wood chips. Make sure you save the apple sauce for basting. Mix in a little SoCo and brown sugar with the apple sauce.

Dude, I never buy Southern Comfort, or Canadian Club for that matter. The maker of those products was once a customer of mine, and I saw how they were made. That same company has much, much better products to cook with, like Jack Daniels, Old Forester, Woodford Reserve, and Glen Morangie, which are pure whiskeys, not blends.

Samuel Clemens once said, ""People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made." Well, that goes for blended whiskey, too. You wouldn't believe what goes into that stuff.
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

ok, Jack Daniels works. Jack is one of my best friends along with his brother Charlie.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

I didn't assume you meant all of them at the same time! I know all of you are responsible enough to not mix shooting and alcohol. Was just stating my thoughts on the issue of drinking and shooting. Sad

Dimitri

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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

A little info on those Chinese M14's;

Clint, tell us about the Chinese M14S

I'd be happy to go through this. Here's the scoop:

1. The locking lug helix (surface contour) of the Chinese bolt does not agree/match the locking lug helix of the receiver. Thus, the bolt locking lug surfaces only partially contact the receiver locking lug surfaces. As you fire the rifle, the bolt will "collapse" back onto the locking lugs of the receiver until "enough" surface contact is engaged to stop the rearward force caused by the 50,000 PSI or so that is produced on each firing. As the bolt moves rearward, headspace is lost. Often/mostly/always massive headspace loss occurs. I have seen Chinese bolts that close & move back & forth with a field gauge. I have witnessed headspace readings estimated (no gauge long enough to be certain) at greater than 20 thous. beyond Go. G.I. bolt's will also "collapse" when receiver locking lugs are not correct (commercial receivers sometimes have poor locking lug surfaces which is why we at Fulton Armory always hand lap every bolt to every commercial receiver to ensure excellent engagement before we install/set headspace), though they move rearward more slowly due to better heat treat & steel. The fact that the Chinese bolts are very soft, amplifies the problem. BTW, the locking lug helix of the Chinese receiver does agree/match the helix of the G.I. M14 bolts quite nicely. I have never had to hand lap a G.I. bolt for more than say, 15-20 minutes to get a beautiful engagement. It's quite odd. It's as though someone ground on the Chinese bolt lugs with a handtool.

2. The Chinese bolt is "too long" as it relates to the firing pin bridge of the receiver, which retracts the firing pin on loading. As the Chinese bolt moves reward, the firing pin tail also moves reward. So much so that the firing pin bridge does not effectively/at all retract the firing pin! I have seen Chinese rifles where the firing pin did not retract at all. This is quite dangerous. Add to this bolt "geometry" problem the fact that the trigger & sears, & hammers are also way too soft (hammer fall will occur) one can see the train wreck ahead.

The Chinese bolts have a great deal more problems than just the heat treating. Incidentally, whether a part is cast or forged has nothing to do with whether they need to be heat treated. These bolts could be transmutated into Kryptonite, but they will still be dangerously substandard.

The problems include:

The bolt's locking lugs are cut wrong !The helixial angles are dead wrong, and thusly, they do NOT properly contact the opposing receiver's locking lugs. A very bad condition, as headspace will be lost over time. Sometimes, in only a few hundred rounds! The bolt sits very far back and away from the barrel mouth, and thus, provides very poor support to the cartridge case at its base. Bear in mind, this has nothing to do with headspace (this condition can exist even with proper headspace). The "closer" a bolt fits to the barrel mouth, the better the support of the case. Over the years, improperly manufactured barrels have shown us what can happen, even with proper headspace, when the cartridge's base is not properly supported: total case failure with catastrophic results. In the Chinese rifle example, it's the bolt sitting too far back on a proper barrel!

Next, because the bolt sits so far back in the receiver, the firing pin tail (which exits at the rear of the bolt body) is also too far rearward and thusly, the firing pin is not properly retracted by the receiver's firing pin bridge.

If you ever have an opportunity to examine a Chinese rifle, remove the op rod, and take notice of how far the bolt can move back & fro, while in battery. In many of these rifles, it's scary. Naturally, how far it will move will depend on how many rounds have been fired and just how bad the bolt was originally.

So, IMHO, forget spending a bunch, or a little, money on "heat treating" the Chinese bolts.

I don't think I'd waste my money on them.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

The hardness of the bolts from the newer I guess you can say (after the US import ban on them in 1994) that are coming into Canada are within spec for a rifle bolt. And dimensionally they are within spec as of the post 2000 series of M14's being imported from what I understand. Smile

Dimitri

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tracker
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

Crackshot wrote:
I cant afford an 18 year old.......Scotch either. Laughing Shocked
What brand do you drink Vince? I drink Glenlivet.

Personally, I'd favor an 18 or 20 year old Glenfiddich or Laphroaig, but I'm far too much of a gentleman to pass a another gentleman's offer of a 12 year old Glenlivet and I would be first to commend you on your good taste sir.

On Chinese rifles I have no opinion, except to say that I expect them to be around the quality of blended Scotches Mad Mad and those two little red faces describe far better than words what I think of blended Scotches.

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tracker
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

Perhaps I should add, in relation to another thread here. If I've been enjoying any of the above mentioned libations of an evening, my ability to judge distances may well be a slight bit a-kilter come morning.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

tracker wrote:
Crackshot wrote:
I cant afford an 18 year old.......Scotch either. Laughing Shocked
What brand do you drink Vince? I drink Glenlivet.

Personally, I'd favor an 18 or 20 year old Glenfiddich or Laphroaig, but I'm far too much of a gentleman to pass a another gentleman's offer of a 12 year old Glenlivet and I would be first to commend you on your good taste sir.

On Chinese rifles I have no opinion, except to say that I expect them to be around the quality of blended Scotches Mad Mad and those two little red faces describe far better than words what I think of blended Scotches.

Touche Tracks old mate. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

I still haven't finished the bottle of Glenfiddich Caoran Reserve Scotch I have here...its just for sipping. Laphroaig...or any of the Islay Single malts is agreeable...most enjoyable. My all time favourite though is one I can't get out here in Australia...St Dominie. Tried it in Aberdeen at the Regimental HQ of the Gordon Highlanders when I was on exchange with them...ah, if Mother's milk was even half as good I'd still be on the........lets not go there.

Cheers, Vince

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tracker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

I was suppin' a few with a fella many years ago and I noticed a bottle of St. Dominie behind his bar, I asked him about it and got..."Oh I wouldn't serve that crap to a guest" Well I was a little suspicious at the time, but now.... Mad Mad That cheap bas****! How about that.

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Rick65Cat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

Well, it arrived today. Can't wait to get all the cosmoline off and go dancing with this beautiful lady Very Happy
Comes with two 5 rnd mags and a 20 rounder thats pinned for 5. Plus a sling and the cleaning kit in the stock. The wood looks beautiful and will look better when cleaned.
Opening the box...
s162.photobucket.com/a...C03194.jpg
Shes gorgeous...
s162.photobucket.com/a...C03195.jpg
Reciever....
s162.photobucket.com/a...C03197.jpg
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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Ordered a new M-14 Reply with quote

Congratulations on the new baby. Give her a bath and she will be fine.

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