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Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle?
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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bill7734
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

I am a new member. I wish I knew of this site sooner. I posted a question "Regulation ammo" earlier asking for help finding factory ammo for a .357 mag that will deliver at least 550-ftlbs@ 50 yards with a min 4in barrel to meet Colorado DOW regulations for hand gun use.
Can anyone help me?
I carry a handgun every time I venture into the mountains "just in case" I am thankful I have never needed to use it.
Its been about nine years since my last hunting trip and I will be going hunting this year mid Nov. I hope I do not need it, but I it would be safer use a handgun than a 30.06 if I have to put down a wounded elk at close range. So I want to have legal ammo in my 4in Dan Wesson .357 just in case.
Thank you
Bill7734
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with the Colorado DOW regs. Does it state that you can't use handloads? If it does look on midwayusa.com and have a look at the Buffalo Bore 158gr. They have a muzzle velocity of 1475 and muzzle energy of 763 ft. lbs. I'm pretty sure they will still carry atleast 550 lbs. at 50 yards.

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bill7734
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

The reg book just states "as rated by manufacturer"
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bill7734
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

d_hoffman
Thank you for the tip. Looks good, thank you.
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

Your welcome

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

If you can't find published info you could use PointBlank to calculate 50 yard energy level. Pick a bullet and tinker with the velocity to see what you need at the muzzle to be legal. For example; playing with a Speer 158 gr JSP it looks like you need at least 1425 ft/sec at the muzzle to make 550 ftlbs at 50 yards. Speer's manual #14 shows a high velocity of 1265 ft/sec, and that was with a 6" barrel. Hornady shows about the same, with an 8" barrel. With a 180 grain bullet you'll need 1280 ft/sec at the muzzle to get the 550 ftlbs at 50 yards. Browse the ammo manufacturers' web sites but I'm guessing that, as d_hoffman said, Buffalo Bore is your best bet for factory ammo.

That said, I wouldn't think the 158 gr JHC they offer is a good bet for dispatching wounded elk. With a bullet designed to open up at standard velocities I'd be afraid it would come apart at higher velocities. I'd go with the 180 gr cast bullet load if I had my "druthers". Just my opinion!

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger...Run the 140 grain SJHP through Point Blank...

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

A 140 grain Speer JHP would need 1515 ft/sec at the muzzle to have 550 ftlbs at 50 yds. I don't have access to the loading manuals at the moment so I can't look it up. (The IT nazis at work block anything gun related. Not sure how I get to this site!)

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

O K...Factory Remington 140 grain SJHP...I chronographed them at 1535 fps. from my 6 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk. My Sierra load manual lists 140 grain JHC at a maximum powder charge of W-296 at 1350 fps and 566 ft/lbs.

Believe it or not...125 grain loadings actually have a higher ft/lbs rating then the heavier bullets in my Sierra manual. 110 grain bullets are lower with the 125 being the highest (at 624 ft/lbs) and the heavier bullets dropping off from there. Again, these are hot loads...

According to my data it can be done. Only one problem...Any .357 magnum loaded to those specs will be at or over maximum pressure. Provided you are using a handgun with at least a 6" barrel. With a 4" barrel and at 50 yards, Not a real feasable idea...I have looked at several load data manuals and none of them will come close to what he wants except in a 6" barreled gun. Bill7734 needs to buy at least a 41 magnum or better. The Remington factory 140 grain SJHP that I tested in my Ruger were also fired from my Colt SAA with a 4 3/4" barrel and I only got 1350 fps.

You will note that I have not listed the powder charges because of the high pressure loads listed in the manuals. Also I have no listing for a barrel length less then 6"...

It looks like he will have to go to the hotest factory loading he can find just to be safe. I know Remington might just make it. Others might be better or at least as good. Handloading?...Bill will need to do a lot of testing to meet the specification that he listed...

Now here comes the wonder powders, bullet, primer combos and the hand loaders that will tell us about their wonder loadings...

Bill7734...You still with us?

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

I agree with Bushmaster in that, if it were me, I'd go with a bigger cartridge. .41 or .44 Magnum.

Now, are we getting confused here on the requirement? I know NC sets a minumum requirement for HUNTING with a handgun but you can carry and use about anything when you are hunting with a rifle. If we're really talking about a backup gun then I wonder if the 550 ftlb minimum is true.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

I should have said you can carry any handgun when hunting with a proper rifle. NC does have minumum requirements for big game rifles too.

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

This 550fp @ 50 yds sounds rediculous to me! Michigan has a minimum 35 CALIBER rule and thats it. I have killed white tails with 357 magnums that I know were not makeing 500fp @ 50 yds much less 550. And they(the deer) never knew the difference. Very Happy And I doubt the local law dogs would care if the animal was taken cleanly and humanely.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

Besides most listings of ft/lbs are at 10 or less...That's pretty much what I found. Those Blacktails didn't have a clue that I was shooting them with a 4 3/4" barrel at way less then 500ft/lbs and 20 to 25 yards...

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

Makem leak in the right place and they are just as dead with a 50 caliber sharps or a 223 remington. Very Happy

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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Do You Carry a Handgun when hunting with a Rifle? Reply with quote

You got that right Crackshot. A .22 short at close range right behind the ear will makem drop like a rock.

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