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New to reloading
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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lone wolf
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject: New to reloading Reply with quote

Just read through the threads posted by another novice reloader and I have a couple of additional questions. I have all the essential equipment (Nosler reloading manual, press, scale, calipers, dies, trimmer, hand priming tool, powder thrower/dispenser, powder trickler, brass, bullets, primers, powder etc...

In the Nosler manual it lists the max. brass length for my 7mm-08 as 2.035" but does not provide a trim to length. Speer & Hornady manuals both list the trim length to as 2.025" Do all bras have to be trimmed to 2.025" or can they but used "as is", providing they do not exceed 2.035" ?

Despite lots of reading, I am still a bit unsure how to determine proper seating depth. Some shooters I have talked to recommend measuring to the ogive of the bullet, rather than the tip. Thought or comments on this ?

For the max OAL, all manuals I have consulted list the 7mm-08 at 2.80" Is it safe to chamber & fire any reloaded rounds that are below the max OAL ?
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Jack
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

As to case length, you can use any brass that's not over the max length.
What the manuals are telling you about trimming is: when you do trim, trim to the shorter length so that the case, if it lengthens a bit, won't be over the max length.
Now, as to bullet seating depth, IMO, reloaders expend more worry and sweat about seating depth than almost anything else.
In the real world, chances are that the longest reloaded cartridge you can use in your rifle will be determined not by the chamber/barrel, but by the magazine. In other words, try using the magazine to determine seating depth: try the reloads in the magazine ( fill the magazine, not just 1 round). The longest reloads that will go into the magazine will very likely be perfectly ok.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

I agree with Jack on the COL (AOL). Once you have determined the longest completed cartridge you can fit in your magazine also check to insure it will camber without the bolt binding at the very end of the chambering stroke. This would indicate that the bullet has been jamed into the led lands and this would cause undue high presures and that is not good...If you go with the AOL (COL) listed in the manual for that manufacturer's bullet you will not go wrong. When you get the basics down pat then you can start experimenting with maximum length that your particular rifle will handle. Remember what you plan to do with your rifle (hunt, plunk or extreme sharp shooting) will determine just how accurate you want it to shoot...

Have a blast and please ask us anything you want. We will try to answer or we will look it up or refer you to someone or place that can. Also don't take anyones recipe for reloads as gospel. If you can't find it in your several (you DO have more then one) manuals don't load it...One more thing only shoot your reloads and NOT anyone else's...READ THOSE MANUALS (twice)...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...


Last edited by Bushmaster on Sat May 19, 2007 1:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lone wolf
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice. I have made enough mistakes in life to know that if information comes via hearsay or the "intraweb" I will take it with a pinch of salt. With anything as potentially dangerous as reloading, any data will be taken only from reliable sources such as manufacturers manuals.
Regarding reloads, I will never use someone elses nor will I reload for anyone. I was hunting with an uncle several years ago and he had been given some handloads. We dropped a whitetail, he shot twice & I shot once to ensure it didn't make it to heavy cover. When we had dressed the animal & were preparing to finish our push he was unable to close his bolt. Closer inspection revealed that the bullet from his second "shot" was stuck in the barrel, luckily close enough to the chamber that he was unable to chamber the next round. Still gives me goosebumps to think what might have happened.
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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Great advice from Bushmaster. When you THINK you know what to do, READ you manuals again so that you are SURE of what you should do.

Also, don't be afraid to search for additional info from reputable websites (Hornady, Hodgdon, and Nosler come to mind), although they seem to reserve the greatest portion of their data for the hard copy manuals (so you need to purchase it from them, I think).

If you want to get into the technical aspects of reloading, check out Varmint Al's site. It was his site that first got me interested in reloading, although he is WAY too technical for me. He only speaks to what has worked for him, and you should be able to acquire some additional knowledge from him.

www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Also remember the bullets curvature (angle of the ogive) will determine the OAL of the cartridge. This is where the magazine method of setting the COL(AOL) will get you in trouble...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Bushy, as usual I could not have said it any better.

Lone Wolf.....as Bushy says, you have a question....simply ask away mate. There is a wealth of knowledge in theis Forum that is pretty much second to none, and the best part is it is free and freely given.

Cheers, Vince

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lone wolf
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Well, I have my first batch of brass resized, trimmed and primed. Powder for each round will have to weighed on the balance scale until I pick up a stand for the powder dispenser (the clamp provided is too small for the bench).

Am a little baffled and looking for your collctive wisdom. For OAL/seating depth I am using the OAL guage from Stoney Point (now marketed as the LNL Guage on the Hornady site). Really nifty tool. When I check the measurements using Sierra Game King (140 grn), I get a max OAL for my chamber of 2.805" (average reading). However when I repeat the procedure with Nosler Silver ballistic tips (140 grn) the average reading is 2.902" For Nosler Partitions (150 grn) it is 2.85" Max OAL for the caliber (7mm-08) is 2.80" I will never exceed max OAL, just curious regarding the discrepancy. Is it in the design of the Noslers ?

The opposite happens with 160 grn failsafes, with the bullet contacting the rifling short of the OAL (it averages at 2.75"). Although three of the major manuals list the max OAL of the 7mm-08 at 2.8" I have also seen 2.75" as the max (I believe it was on the Hogdon site).
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

You must remember that the nose of the bullet is well inside of the barrel. Depending on the angle of the ogive from the bearing surface to the point. It's possible that...Correction. You will find that from one bullet to another in the same batch that the OAL will be a bit different by +/- a couple thousands of an inch. If you are using the Stoney Point gauges for that calibre you should be fine...Does your manual have a drawing of a bullet profile showing the parts of the bullet?

And thanks Vince...You are soo kind...Indeed.

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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lone wolf
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Bushmaster, yes both the manuals and the literature from Stoney Point provide clear descriptions of the various bullet components. Stoney Point also shows a diagram of their relationship of the bullet to the chamber and bore. They also recommend "backing off" the length by between 0.02" and 0.04" to achieve free travel and for safety & feeding reliability reasons. Also, as stated earlier, although I may be fine with COL's exceeding the maximum, chances are I will be unable to use them in my detachable magazine.

I have been shooting factory loads from my 7mm-08 since I bought it several years ago, so I have a good supply of fire formed brass. Is it possible to neck size using a standard 2 die set ? Is it simply achieved by shortening the press stroke to just below the shoulder ?

I also noticed that when deburred the inside of the trimmed cases there were tiny metal shavings on the inside lip of the case. Do these need to be removed ?
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

You will need a neck sizer only die for that...If your rifle is a semi-auto you will need to full size the cases for feed reasons.

If the brass shavings fall into the case no problem. If you are talking about the burrs on the inside of the case after trimming. They need to be removed. If your deburring tool isn't removing these burrs get a better one. Mine removes them 100%. When you deburr the inside and the outside make sure you don't make a knife edge on the mouth of the case...Just remove the burrs and that's all...

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I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...


Last edited by Bushmaster on Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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d_hoffman
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Hey Bushy, just maybe telling him to have a blast with his reloads isn't the best advice. Bomb Cheers

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sniper
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

lone wolf wrote:
.I have been shooting factory loads from my 7mm-08 since I bought it several years ago, so I have a good supply of fire formed brass. Is it possible to neck size using a standard 2 die set ? Is it simply achieved by shortening the press stroke to just below the shoulder ?

I also noticed that when deburred the inside of the trimmed cases there were tiny metal shavings on the inside lip of the case. Do these need to be removed ?

Good caliber! RCBS has what they call an "X Die", which is said to limit case stretching and eliminate or reduce trimming. That's one option. You will still need a trimmer. Lee makes good ones, for individual calibers, for not a lot of money.

You can neck size brass with your standard 2 die set. Merely back the die off from the full length resize length a little. You can tell how much by smoking the neck of the brass, or marking it with a laundry pen, then sizing the case. You will be able to see where the sizing ends, by demarcation between brass and soot or ink, where the sizing stopped.

Don't forget proper lubrication. (Don't ask!) It is said that you should size about 1/2 of the neck. This, in effect, gives you a two diameter neck, for better centering in the chamber. You can repeat this setting wtih a die properly adjusted for full length sizing by placing a washer between the lock ring and press body. The washer thickness can be used to adjust the final amount of sizing. This may not be considered proper neck sizing, but it does work.

For my ammo, I prefer to adjust the die so it resizes the entire neck, and just "bumps" the shoulder back, to ensure positive chambering.

The difference in accuracy between minimum full length sized brass and "neck sized" is small, if any, and is hardly worth the trouble, IMO. Full length sized brass seems to give fewer problems.

Deburring? Yes: during trimming, a small lip is formed on the out and insides of the brass. You can feel the outer lip by using your fingernail like you were trying to scratch the brass from shoulder to case mouth.

Your fingernail will catch on the lip. It is on the inside too, which is why chamfer tools were created. They are relatively inexpensive, and work well. Old timers used a knife blade to remove the inside lip.

Easy does it! You just need to remove the lip, not sharpen the case mouth.

Good luck with your reloading. As I said, you have a fine caliber, which will serve from Mouse to Moose. (A little heavy for mouse, adequate for moose. The ballistic twin of the 7 X57 mm Mauser, which has taken every game species on the planet. Very Happy
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fireball 3
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Ditto on what Sniper said. I also use a thin washer between the shellholder and the die. Neck sizer dies work also but are pricey depending on the calber. I like about a .010 to .020" washer. H Very Happy Shooting Happy shooting, Dave

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: New to reloading Reply with quote

Welcome to the world of reloading Lone Wolf.
Reloading is my second hobby next to shooting.
I can't add much to what advice that you already have gotten, but I like your questions. They mean that you should have a great experience reloading.
Any new reloads that I am trying, and I want some extra thinking besides my own, I ask the guys here or on the Firing Line Forum.
A guy can't take too much time to figure out a safe load before pulling the trigger.
Also, listen to Bushy on stuff.
He got me through my CCW Class with a 99% shooting score.
Bushy knows what he is talking about.

Eric

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