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Carry ammunition
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10189
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:28 am    Post subject: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

Had the enjoyment of runnin' some (in my opinion) very expensive 9mm X 19 rounds down range through a chronograph. The idea was to get specifications so I could duplicate a practice round. $16 and change for 20 rounds and I bought 2 boxes of 20.

Hi-Vol=1024.6 Low-Vol=1002.8 Aver=1013.6 ES=22.8 SD=9.6 AD=7.4
The above specifications are the results of five strings of five rounds each and then all five strings averaged.

These were shot from a Firestar M43 with a 3.39" barrel over a Pact Model 1 Chronograph placed 8 feet down range from the muzzle. Ambient temperature was 55 degrees F. Partly cloudy.
Oh yeah!! Federal 124 grain JHP Hydra-Shok.

I doubt that W-231 will do the job this time. Crying or Very sad Although I will try it until the Power Pistol that I ordered comes in...

Oh and one other little thing...I won't really care what you carry as you are not our local sheriff. I will be using the same ammunition as he uses. Sooo...Let's work on my little problem. O K?? I just knew you guys would understand... Very Happy

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

Bushy,
Shot 9mm Major IPSC for about 2 years, when legal.
My load was a 160 grain RN cast bullet, the powder was AA #7 and the primers were all Federal 205m (rifle). Brass was new Winchester unfired. For two years, that was also my carry gun and load. It was like carrying a 15 shot 357.
The thing you have to watch in that little case is to increase by a tenth of a grain, more than that will get you into trouble.
Ed

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fb41
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

You should be able to use 231 to get the velocities you're after. I load 4.6 of 231 under Winchester 124 FMJ and get an average of 1040 fps out of my Kahr K9.

Another powder I have used to get higher velocity in IMR 700-X.
4.6 grains got me around 10-60 to 1080 fps from the Kahr and from the M43 I traded to get it.

I agree with you on your choice of carry ammo- I carry what my local SO carries as well. I figure if SHTF (knock on wood it doesn't) I can truthfully state I used what the cops use. The only caveat I have to that is the ammo that is marked by the mfg. as "LEO Only"- it isn't illegal for me to own or use it, but it's harder to defend in court.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

Bushmaster,
The 231 will get you about 950 but your Power Pistol will get you where you want to be with a charge of 6.0 to 6.2 grains. You may even find that you get real accuracy with the load too.
good luck!
Paul

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

That is about what I figured, PaulS...I'll run a group of test rounds loaded with W-231 just as a reference.

Right now I'm out of luck until my gun shop gets some Power Pistol in. He's holding a thousand primers and some targets for me right now. Just waiting...

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

Well...I completed the first run...Components: 9mmX19 cases; Delta 89. Powder; W-231. Primers; WSP. Bullet; Remington 124 grain JHP.

4.6 gr...1034....986...1013...48.6...18.3...13.6
4.8 gr...1048...1018...1045...29.4...13.3....8.0
4.9 gr...1066...1048...1057...17.6....7.4.....5.8
5.0 gr...1084...1051...1068...33.5...13.9...10.9
5.1 gr...1086...1065...1078...20.2....7.8.....5.5

Numbers in order are High vel., Low vel., Av. vel., ES, SD, AD.

It was obvious that we were wrong. W-231 is quite capable of reaching the needed velocity of the Fed Hydra-Shoks at 4.8 grains.

Still waiting for the Power Pistol to arrive...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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PaulS
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Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

Bushmaster,
That load is more than a half grain over what my Speer manual calls maximum but I have some other books that list slightly higher loads than the Speer and my old Sierra manual says you can go .1 further.
That 4.9 grain load look mighty good from here. Is it as accurate as the numbers say it should be? 1057 AvVel, 17.6 Extreme spread, and a standard deviation of 7.4 with an average deviation at 5.8; I would want to run that load and the 5.1 load again and see if they are consistant from day to day. My experience says that the 4.9 load will change less from day to day than the 5.1 load. The extreme spread is a lot higher than it should be to match the other numbers. Your accuracy is what is important. Time to burn a bit more lead!
Have fun with it.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

The idea was to try and match the Hydra-Shoks. all of the above groups went to the same place on the target. A bit spread out. Probably the guns fault...Or me. My bench rest is home made. And I'm still getting use to my new 25 yard range.
I'll probably try the 4.9 loads again. I'd like to stay away from the 5.1 loads although I saw no over pressure signs. I did notice a "coma" shaped pin mark on the primers indicating that the hotter loads were cycling the slide very quickly causing the firing pin to drag on the primer.
I will see what they do at combat distance rather then 25 yards next time out.

_________________
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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

I cannot carry in the great state of Illinois, but I would run 115 XTPs with 5.1 of 231. Very conisitent and acurate load in a Smith 39-2. Does a number on a stray possum too ....8-O

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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10189
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Carry ammunition Reply with quote

Yes I know you can't carry in the "great state of Illinois" (A rather unfriendly state Sad ). Niether can I and I have a CCW (for Missouri. A more friendly state Very Happy ).

The idea here is to duplicate Fed. Hydra-Shoks as that is what the Sherrif carries here. Rather then to carry handloads and help the defense lawyer with more ammunition then he really needs I wish to carry Hydra-Shoks. BUT... They are just to spendy to use for practice. I have a small affectionate feeling for XTPs but still haven't taken game with one yet. So I handgun hunt with what I know and that is Remington. For carry...It will be Hydra-Shoks.

But thanks anyway, Dawgdad... Very Happy

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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