HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 208
BOT: 0
Total: 208
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Photo Albums
10: Home
11: Your Account
12: Your Account
13: Forums
14: Your Account
15: Home
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Your Account
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Home
23: Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Your Account
31: Photo Albums
32: Home
33: Your Account
34: Forums
35: Home
36: Photo Albums
37: Home
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Your Account
41: Forums
42: Home
43: Photo Albums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Your Account
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Home
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Home
57: Home
58: Your Account
59: Forums
60: Photo Albums
61: Forums
62: Home
63: Your Account
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Photo Albums
71: Home
72: Your Account
73: Your Account
74: Home
75: Forums
76: Home
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Home
80: Home
81: Forums
82: Your Account
83: Statistics
84: Home
85: Your Account
86: Photo Albums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Home
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Home
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Photo Albums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Home
103: Forums
104: Your Account
105: Your Account
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Your Account
109: News
110: Your Account
111: Home
112: Your Account
113: Your Account
114: Home
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Your Account
118: Photo Albums
119: Home
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Home
123: Home
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Home
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Your Account
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Photo Albums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Home
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Home
146: Photo Albums
147: Forums
148: Photo Albums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Home
155: Your Account
156: Your Account
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Home
160: Your Account
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Your Account
167: Home
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Photo Albums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Your Account
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Home
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Home
184: Home
185: Forums
186: Photo Albums
187: Home
188: Home
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Home
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Home
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Home
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Photo Albums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Your Account
207: Your Account
208: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

"KNOCK" down POWER!!
Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Big Game Hunting

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
deermanager
Member
Member


Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:35 am    Post subject: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

As a proffesional hunter i often hear guys come up to me with some shiny new rifle chambered for the latest super magnum and remark how with its tremendous knock down power no deer sized annimal would be able to stay on its feet after being hit. When i tell them that whether the annimal stays on its feet or goes straight down is down to bullet placement to a higher degree than how many ft/llb's they are packing or what new super killing bullet they are using that promises lightning quick kills, i can see it going in one ear and out the other and can see them thinking how can he know its a new caliber or these bullets only just came out!!
When we get down to taking the shot, i always advise to go for the heart with clients. If you know you quarry's anatomy it is possible on deer to completely destroy the heart and an large portion of the lungs without ever touching the 2 shoulders. This i consider to be the perfect chest shot as it kills the annimal as cleanly as possible without turning the two shoulders into ham burger meat! With this shot however you will 99% of the time never knock the annimal down and kill it on the spot. How could you? all you have done is removed the heart and collapsed the lungs, their is still a great deal of residual oxygen and blood for that matter still in the annimal giving it life, when the annimal runs it quickly depleats this "reserve" and when due to the heart and out of action lungs the oxygen debt is not being paid for it keels over. This varys between annimals, i have seen small 6month old does hit here go 100yds flat out in a leaping run, and i have seen huge stags hit and just remain motionless for a minute or so then stagger and go down. You can never predict the annimals reaction, although you can be certain that if the annimal goes straight over you have either clipped one of or both shoulers, hit the spine, or if you really are shooting wild the neck or brain. I admit the heavier calibers will pull a deer down if one of the shoulders is clipped on some occasions, but more often the deer runs with one leg up and is essentially running on only 3 legs.
When one of these clients shoots his/her beast and it goes straight over and they turn to me and say see! with a big smile slathered accross their face i always hold my tongue as their is no point, and wait till we get back to the larder. Usually they have hit plum centre in the shoulder, or have partly listened and gone in where i said on one side but not taken into account the angle at which the annimal is standing and drilled thru the opposing shoulder! thus writing off the front half of the carcass in regards to me being able to exract any revenue from it!
I suppose its practice makes perfect, but one saying keeps ringing true as i've seen guys with little .222's fold up huge stags on the spot where guys with .375's and bigger had failed....................its all down to bullet placement!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2965
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Howdy I agree shot placement is the most important part, and as you stated heart shot deer don't always want to drop, even though there dead on the hoof, i seem to get more knock downs with a lung shot i am not sure exactly why but any how, bottom line a deer shot in the heart with a 222 will die more humanely than one shot in the butt with a 338 just my opinion. Smile

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
grimel
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

One thing peopole tend to forget:

Meat damage is directly propotional to velocity and inversly proportional to bullet weight (in caliber).

30-30, 375win, 45/70, 30-06 (with 180 or 200gr standard bullets), and such allow one to eat right up to the bullet hole. Start dropping the bullet weight and jacking up the velocity in the quest for the 500 yd flat as a table trajectory and you can start throwing out meat.

I won't even start on how 99.9% of the people can shoot the old fashioned eat to the hole choices and HIT where they aim versues the same people that have a hard time hitting any part of the animal with the latest super boomer.

_________________
But.....ain't many troubles that a man caint fix
with seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six.

Lindy Cooper Wisdom

Back to top
View user's profile
deermanager
Member
Member


Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Is there a .375winchester ? havent had a client use one with me yet, have had plenty of .375H&Hmagnums (Holland and Holland). In England we have 7 differant species of deer we may encounter when out.
The smallest being the muntjac and water deer that only weigh 30llbs -40llbs dresses out. Even with a 180gr controlled expansion bullet damage to these diminutive deer is collossal due to the small frame of the carcass, far less compared with my .243 with ballistic tips.
Beleive you me i shoot enough to know, i shoot 3-500 deer each year myself and guide clients on a good deal more and believe you me just when i think i've seen it all someone else comes along and makes me think again!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
popgun
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Yep, 375 Winchester. A lever action cartridge usually and very potent.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
grimel
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Take a 30-30 and blow the case out straight. That's a 375 Win (or 38-55 in the lowered powered older version). It will kill any deer walking the planet with minimal damage to the meat (much less than your 243 ballisit tips). In a 14" Contender it's the nearest thing to The Hammer of Thor to be found (along with the 375 JDJ, 338 JDJ#2, 35 Rem, 358JDJ, 358 Bellm, 444 Marlin, and 45/70 govt).

Have one of your clients try a 180gr Remington Corloct on those tiny deer. Less damage than your 243 BT's. We have a LOT of deer over here. A goodly portion of them field dress out at 40-70lb. Finger size hole at impact, golf ball hole at exit with minimal bloodshot meat. If you haven't noticed, I'm not much on hyper velocity and small bullets. Our 243's run 100gr Nosler Partitions. Our 7mm RemMag (it's waaaay to accurate to sell/trade) shoots 160gr Partitions. Our 30-06's shoot corelocts or partitions 180gr. None of us care about horns and we abhore wasting meat.

_________________
But.....ain't many troubles that a man caint fix
with seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six.

Lindy Cooper Wisdom

Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

I can count the number of deer shot through the lungs with a high power rifle that didnt drop immediately on 1 hand. I've found personally, its the #1 most reliable, fastest way to kill an animal. Very very few animals ever went in a direction other than down. I believe this to be because of the state of the animal itself. A Tense animal might be more prone to run where a calm one will probably just drop... at least that follows what I've seen in the wild.

Lemme re-host the movie WY of a pronghorn my wife shot a couple years ago with her .243 ... the older members here have seen it but its still pretty spectacular to see it just drop like it was poleaxed. Most everything I've shot with a rifle remained at the spot of impact.

Now to be fair, I dont get those results with my muzzleloader kills. While they have the power to put a major hole through both sides of a critter, it doesnt have the shock facter a high power rifle has which contributes to quick on the spot kills.

-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2965
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Howdy I agree 100% with you Dallan that has bin my experiance as well a lung shot just sems to take them down faster with a center fire but the muzzleloader and slugs lack the shock for instant knock downs i have had it happen just not near as often.

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
deermanager
Member
Member


Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

I can honestly say that i have seen Big Red stags hit with .375H&H's - .416's etc that have stayed on their feet for up to 10minutes with what would be considered perfect shot placement, and that is using just normal soft point ammunition designed to expand. You are essentially watching a large annimal drown in its own blood! Just not enough lung dissue is destroyed compared with the higher velocity calibres that dump far more energy into the carcass
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
grimel
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

375H&H - 416's even with soft points aren't designed to work on most critters, they don't expand fast enough, thus when they exit the result is closer to muzzleloader/30-30 performance than 30-06 results.

In case you haven't figured it ou, I'm pretty much a standard caliber with standard weight bullets kind of guy. I'm still searching for a reason to own something other than a 30-06 for NA game other than the big bears. Add a 22lr for small eating critters and a 17Rem for varmits/fur bearers makes one pretty well armed for most everything.

_________________
But.....ain't many troubles that a man caint fix
with seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six.

Lindy Cooper Wisdom

Back to top
View user's profile
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3571
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

grimel wrote:
I'm still searching for a reason to own something other than a 30-06 for NA game other than the big bears.

Because well.... they are just sooo boring. If there was ever a vanilla flavor for rifles, the 30-06 is certainly it Wink


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2965
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

OUCH!!

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
delboy
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 240
Location: London England

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Grimel - what are you like? Hyper velocity? Small bullets? This from a man who uses a gun that fires a half pound chunk of lead at speeds approaching 1000 fpm - no, not fps, fpM!! You could throw a baseball faster than that old front stuffer of yours, the animal probably goes down suffocating from smoke inhalation! Either that or dies of old age, waiting for the 'lead brick' to arrive. Smile As for the deermanager, he has been kind enough to invite me to shoot with him as we live fairly close to each other and, providing I don't embarrass myself TOOOO much, I'll post the result of the outing (Deer 1 - Hunter 0 Any bets?) for all to laugh at!

_________________
There are few problems in life that cannot be solved with sufficient high explosive........
Back to top
View user's profile
deermanager
Member
Member


Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

great one dell!! lovin it!! classic!! s**t just watching the news!! weve just had london hit by a loada suicide bombers attaking busses and trains!! when will those people give up!! we should start a new topic about what caliber best stops a suicide bomber!! really stops them in their traks to stop them being able to press the buton on their last breath!

.50BMG i think would be the answer!!

Loved what saddam did to those iranian bombers he caught, strapped them up with small amounts of their own explosive, took them out into the desert and watched them atomise one by one with a cocktail in hand on a sun lounger............justice saddam style!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
delboy
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 21, 2005
Posts: 240
Location: London England

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: "KNOCK" down POWER!! Reply with quote

Andy, don't think you can beat a nice head shot with a 450grain solid slug at around 1600fps - give me the good old shotgun for sheer stopping power any day. All those nasty pointy bullets at a million miles an hour just go right on through whereas one shotgun cartridge = a whole clip of .38 pistol - all landing at once! Messy - but efficient! Remember children - DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME! Smile

_________________
There are few problems in life that cannot be solved with sufficient high explosive........
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Big Game Hunting
Page 1 of 6
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.