Jim Zumbo..Assault Rifles For Hunting?

d_hoffman · Last edited by d_hoffman on Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Jim Zumbo is one of the people I see on the outdoor channel who thinks they need a .300 win mag or a .338 win mag at relatively short yardages just to shoot a deer or elk that could be taken with anything from a .243 for deer to a .270 or a 7mm rem mag for elk.

"EVIL ASSAULT RIFLES"... "NO PLACE IN SOCIETY FOR HANDGUNS"... THEY CAN TAKE EVERY WEAPON THERE IS, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO KILL ANOTHER THEY'LL FIGURE OUT HOW AND DO IT. TO INCLUDE REVERTING BACK TO CAVEMAN DAYS AND KILL WITH STICKS AND ROCKS. THE WEAPONS AREN'T EVIL, IT'S THE IDIOTS THAT PICK THEM UP AND DO "EVIL" THINGS WITH THEM. I THINK ALL OF THOSE BLEEDING HEART BASTARDS NEED TO JUST SHUT THE HELL UP. AFTER ALL THEIR FREEDOMS RIDE ON THE VERY SAME WEAPONS THEY'RE BITCHIN ABOUT, THAT US VETS CARRIED PROTECTING THEIR FREEDOMS. I BET YOU HE WOULDN'T BE TALKING SO LOUD IF HE EVER HAD TO WAKE UP IN THE SAME UNIFORM HE HAD ON LAST WEEK, WONDERING IF THIS IS THE DAY HE DIES.

Arron

I kind of did something similar once on another site but I was refering to the .50BMG rifles out there being used on ranges that were not meant for them and stated that they could draw unwanted attention to the range and that the folks using them needed to weigh ALL of the factors before taking one out to a rifle range. I got called pretty much everything from someone buying the lies that the anti-gunners are trying to use to divide and conquer tactics and helping to spread them and add to the hostilities. And I also said that if someone showed up with one I would be just a bit more nervous with it on the range because of what it is capable of doing when the trigger is pulled. Oh man did I catch it for that remark even more so.

Many of the folks in our communities, simply do not understand just how these rifles work. They are in reality no different from any other rifle out on the market including the various .50BMG's(other than size and effective range). And if we were to pick one up and use it for some time then most would see they are EXTREMELY functional. Should a person hunt with any of these types of rifle's? I would simply say yes as long as it can be effective for the intended game at range and complies with the game laws in the area. About fifteen years ago I would have never have owned any type of Sport Utility Rifle but I own at least two and that 10/22 could be in the same "class". Mine are a very nice Chi-Comm SKS, and a CETME .308/7.62NATO. I would part with that CETME before I would give up that SKS as it is just so simple that a talking monkey could work on it and maintain it. About two years ago dad started reading up on the new generation of super accurate AR's and decided to get a Varminter. He would have liked to get a Rock River but for the difference in price he was willing to give up a half or quarter minute of angle for it. These will outshoot just about every bolt action we both have the only exception MIGHT and that is a big might, could be my NEF Ultra rifle in .223Rem. These are not the rifles(AR'S) from the Vietnam generation and compare only in action type and basic components and caliber and the rest is so far apart there is no comparison in them. These rifles fall into the same catagory as a BAR or Remington 7600. Most places you can only have five rounds in the mag of any type be it a detachable box mag or a fixed magazine no matter the caliber or type of firearm. Get ahold of one and you might change your mind also, I sure did!

roklok

I believe Zumbo just joined the ranks of the worst enemies of our second amendment, whether he intended to or not. What makes it so bad is that he is supposed to be one of us. With a "friend" like this who needs enemies. You can bet that the Anti's will get a hold of his mindless rant and try and use it to their advantage. Simply inexcusable.

yotebuster · Member Joined: Oct 16, 2005 Posts: 216 Location: Georgia

We will be eating his words for a long, long time. Complete with icing. But it won't taste like sugar.
I wonder if his recipe book will contain this "Recipe for Disaster"? I had all intentions of buying his book at one point, but, I've somehow lost my appetite.
Yotebuster

4rum · Member Joined: Jan 06, 2007 Posts: 211

Make no mistake. Gun ownership is a battle in itself. Sometimes we loose a good soldier. Zumbo was a positive force for many many years. I don't necessarily damn him now, but I do mourn the loss of a voice with a large circulation. I hope his apology makes him feel better, the damage to our rights is done. Fodder for the anti grist mills is for the most part irrevocable. Once stated it cannot usually be forgotten or corrected. I do think that any organized effort at boycott of his articles would serve a good purpose though... in case he would slip again, it would be a great reminder to him of who really feeds him.

1895ss

mc223 wrote:

I AM FAR MORE TROUBLED BY THE IGNORANT ECHO AND THE SECOND POSTED ABOVE. WHAT ZUMBO DID WAS WRONG, FOR ALL GUN ENTHUSIASTS.

Let me clarify my thoughts on this issue.
I agree that as hunters and shooters we must stand together. But I don't feel good about the use of the "assault" rifles for hunting and I have no interest in them. I like to hunt with a rifle in lever or bolt. But I don't really care if someone hunts with an "assault" rifle and I don't think I'm better then them because I use my lever or bolt. I actually believe we should be able to hunt with whatever firearm we choose, be it a handgun or rifle of any make or configuration. But I believe the future of our hunting and shooting traditions or rights, relies very much on public perception. I'll bet the anti gun and animal rights groups would love to paint a picture in the publics mind of hunters running around in the woods etc carrying "assault" rifles killing everything in sight. The only difference between you or I hunting with a traditional styled hunting rifle or an "assault" rifle is the image in the public eye and has nothing to do with ethics. There are ethical and unethical hunters carrying both kinds of firearms. It still comes down to public perception and that's why I feel they should not be carried by hunters while hunting. We need to try to get the public more on our side not push them away even more.

Bushmaster

d_hoffman...Is that language necessary?

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

Bushmaster wrote:

d_hoffman...Is that language necessary?

Oops... I browsed over this thread quickly earlier, I guess i didnt read it in enough detail to see any bad words.

It seems this story is on every single hunting site out there... Zumbo definitely painted himself into a corner. He has since apologized but it seems to be making things worse.

On the other hand I am really happy and surprised at how quickly Remington stepped up to handle this, A+ effort from them!!!!

4rum · Member Joined: Jan 06, 2007 Posts: 211

1895ss;

Excellent post. I love all facets of weapons and firearm's progression. I like building and shooting long bows. I have built (from kits and parts) muzzle loaders and enjoyed them immensly. I appreciate fine craftsmanship exhibited in the high end rifles and shotguns from every era. I am curious about the workings, the "innards" of all mechanically operated firing systems... locks, slides, springs, interrupted threads...

I love dismanteling and learning about guns. I ABSOLUTEY love shooting, all types of guns. One of my favorites is the old .30 carbine. The AR's and derivatives are a hoot and the improvements to them are amazing. The history, quality and superior functionality of the Kalashnikovs and their successors amazes me still.

I love the nostalgia of the Winchester 73, 94, Mod. 70. and so many others. I have been fortunate enough to handle and shoot ALL of these over the years. And you are exactly right, in 100% of the cases, regardless of the weapon or arm, it is perception that dictates it's public profile.

I strongly support everyone here in their right to own and operate any legal firearm in ANY manner legal. I don't need to approve of individual tastes or use. I do, however, just like you said, need to be aware of perpetuating negative human perception. The connotations and or images that jump to the forefront of the population at large's mind is the one that matters when ANY weapon is merely mentioned. We as knowlegeable owners need to take every opportunity to educate instead of confront these people.

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

Some quotes I've seen on this:

Remington:

Quote::

PLEASE SEND THIS TO ALL THE PEOPLE ON THE ORIGINAL LIST.

1. THE AUTHOR OF THAT ARTICLE IS NOT I REPEAT NOT A REMINGTON REP.
2. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE AUTHOR IS WAY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE GUNS OF
TODAY.
3. IT IS EQUALLY OBVIOUS THAT HE HAS FORMED HIS OWN OPINIONS BASED ON A
CONVERSATION/S WITH GUIDES WHERE HE WAS HUNTING, NOT DUE TO SOMETHING A
REMINGTON EMPLOYEE SAID.

PLEASE REST ASSURED THAT REMINGTON AS A COMPANY HAS NOTHING AGAINST ARs
OF ANY KIND AS WITNESSED BY THE FACT THAT WE OURSELVES HAVE A 308
VARIANT OF AN AR.

I will handle this.

V/R
Michael Haugen
CW3 (R) USSF
Manager - Military Products Division
Remington Arms Company Inc.
360-458-6395 (office)
360-400-1678 (Fax)

Remington #2 (and he has a good point about people unfairly criticizing Remington for what z(D)umbo said.

Quote::

ALL - Jim Zumbo in NO WAY speaks for Remington! His opinions are his own. We at Remington take our 2nd Ammendment Rights extremely seriously and ourselves market and manufacturer a AR based 308 rifle. Remington Arms supports the lawful use of all firearms by thier owners in whatever legal manner they choose. We at Remington feel that it is the diversity of our tastes and uses of fireaems that should also be the binding element that assists us all in defending the rights granted to us by our fore fathers.

Rest assured that remington not only does not support jim's view, we totally disagree! I have no explaination for his perspective.

I proudly own AR's and support everyones right to do so!

What makes me sick is how quickly people on the internet have called to boycott Remington. All Jim said was he was hunting with our people! This is normal course in our industry. How else do people think we field test? with writers.

Remington has spent tens of millions of dollars to defend your rights and how quickly the thanks is threat and boycott! Please feel Free to post that remington does not agree with Zumbo in any way shape or form and we will assess our relationship with him accordingly.

Tommy Millner
CEO and President

Dumbo err Zumbo's appology:

Quote::

I was wrong, BIG TIME

Someone once said that to err is human. I just erred, and made without question, the biggest blunder in my 42 years of writing hunting articles.

My blog inflamed legions of people I love most..... hunters and shooters. Obviously, when I wrote that blog, I activated my mouth before engaging my brain.

Let me explain the circumstances surrounding that blog. I was hunting coyotes, and after the hunt was over and being beat up by 60 mph winds all day, I was discussing hunting with one of the young guides. I was tired and exhausted, and I should have gone to bed early. When the guide told me that there was a "huge" following of hunters who use AR 15's and similar weapons to hunt prairies dogs, I was amazed. At that point I wrote the blog, and never thought it through.

Now then, you might not believe what I have to say, but I hope you do. How is it that Zumbo, who has been hunting for more than 50 years, is totally ignorant about these types of guns. I don't know. I shot one once at a target last year, and thought it was cool, but I never considered using one for hunting. I had absolutely no idea how vast the numbers of folks are who use them.

I never intended to be devisive, and I certainly believe in United we Stand, Divided we Fall. I've been an NRA member for 40 years, have attended 8 national NRA conventions in the last 10 years, and I'm an advisory board member for the United States Sportsmen's Alliance which actively fights anti-hunters and animal rights groups for hunter's rights.

What really bothers me are some of the unpatriotic comments leveled at me. I fly the flag 365 days a year in my front yard. Last year, through an essay contest, I hosted a soldier wounded in Iraq to a free hunt in Botswana. This year, through another essay contest, I'm taking two more soldiers on a free moose and elk hunt.

When I started blogging, I was told to write my thoughts, expressing my own opinion. The offensive blog I wrote was MY opinion, and no one else's. None of the companies that I deal with share that opinion, nor were they aware of what I had written until this firestorm started.

Believe it or not, I'm your best friend if you're a hunter or shooter, though it might not seem that way. I simply screwed up. And, to show that I'm sincere about this, I just talked to Ted Nugent, who everyone knows, and is a Board member of the NRA. Ted is extremely active with charities concerning our wounded military, and though he's known as a bowhunter, Ted has no problem with AR 15's and similar firearms. My sincerity stems from the fact that Ted and I are planning a hunt using AR 15's. I intend to learn all I can about them, and again, I'm sorry for inserting my foot in my mouth.

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, its just good reading IMO and filling in more of the story.

-DallanC

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944

Funny Outdoor life removed the posts on the blog. Smile

Quote::

Statement from Outdoor Life

Due to the controversy surrounding Jim Zumboâ€™s recent postings, Outdoor Life has decided to discontinue the â€œHunting With Zumboâ€ blog for the time being. Outdoor Life has always been, and will always be, a steadfast supporter of our Second Amendment rights, which do not make distinctions based on the looks of the firearms we choose to own, shoot and take hunting. Please direct any comments you have to OLletters @ time4.com.

Makes me feel good Remington was quick to act. Now to hunt down the AR-10 that Remington makes (didn't know they made them) Smile

Dimitri

4rum · Member Joined: Jan 06, 2007 Posts: 211

There is at least one positive aspect of this debacle. At least it proves that "WE" can still be rallyed and our voice can still be heard.

ElyBoy

I am VERY happy with Remington and Outdoor Life jumping on Zumbo, and listening to the average shooter and hunter.

Great post by all, except -----
Mr Hoffman---Quit SHOUTING!!!!! Mad

I had to turn my game ear down. Smile

Eric

shrpshtrjoe

Found this on remington's web site
www.remington.com/libr...2007-1.asp
Good job remington
Joe

Crackshot

Now....we need to keep Billery Clinton out of the White House........and any other place of power.