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Teaching a newbie to reload
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13489
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Gidday d_hoffman, and welcome to HuntingNut....the best little hunting site in the west. Grab a beer mate and soak up the ambience.

I've just read through your request and the advice given. Heed Bushy's advice very seriously mate. It is extremely sage advice.

I wish that I had this sort of guidance when I first started reloading. Very Happy I bought myself a 6" S&W Model 19 K Frame and started up to makin' bullets. I knew next to nothing about the strength of the revolver or the power of reloads....even those that were in accordance with the reloading manuals of the day (near on 30 yrs ago). To cut a long sad story short....I tried shooting sillouette with the Mod 19 using 155gn FMJ bullets with a charge of Hercules 2400 that was a "magnum" load. These loads were around 1500 fps too. The forcing cone on the Model 19 lasted about 30 rounds before it split and locked up the cylinder. At the time I still didn't think the loads were to blame....I thought it was a fault in the barrel. I know better now.

So there ya go mate....even the books, although being right can be wrong at the same time. I'm not really familiar with the 6" Taurus but I would do as much research as I can and get as much info about the pistol, its strength and capabilities, and then, and only then, would I start researching load recipes.

As an aside, why a .357 Mag for hunting? Why not a .44 Mag which is a more versatile and practical calibre for both deer and hogs. That's not to say the .357 isn't capable, but why push the envelope with the .357 when the .44 will do it much more betterer and goodlier (and its a classier calibre too Very Happy Laughing ). (Watch the comments fly after that one Very Happy ).

If you are hell bent on using a .357 Mag for hunting, put some thought into a TC Contender...even the 10" BBL model. They are very strong and accurate.

Cheers, Vince

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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

I'm a bit embarrassed here as I have no data on Lil' Gun. But you may want to recheck other resourses. 25,800 CUP seems a bit low to produce over 1500 fps. 25,800 CUP would be reasonable with starting loads, but not top loads. You are correct that lower chamber pressures will net you lower felt recoil...

Well Vince...Using a .357 magnum is more sporting. Ya have to be a better shot 'cause you ain't sending no bowling ball at the deer. I don't think I would use it against hogs, unless they were real small farm pigs...

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Using H110 (and WW296) I get an honest 1470 through my chronographs with a 140 grain Speer HP and 17 grains. The fastest jacketed bullet was 18grains with a Speer 146 HP HJSWC I got it up to 1646 but I had to bring the load down to find accuracy. It knocked many a ram over at 100 meters.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Same thing I noted with W-296 Pauls...Only I was able to go a bit higher on the powder charge before accuracy diminished. Difference in hanguns...Same velocities though...Nice to see you back...

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d_hoffman
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Joined: Feb 13, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Thanks for the welcomes guys. As far as what happens if you get scared half to death twice.............. The out come depends on the length of recouperation time between scares...HAHAHA. I did at one time have a .44 mag, which was also a Taurus, and i was a pretty fair shot with it. I could pick off bowling pins at 100 yards. the recoil was also managable even with the HOT reloads. I just wanted to try something different and it seconds as a home defence weapon. The friend of mine that's going to do the loads for me has used his .357 on hogs with great success but like bushy said you need to be a good shot! I'm the type of person who likes to research such things to death before going ahead with it. Thanks for all of the advice. I'll let you know what happens.
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4570Ranger
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
You will be asking a lot of that Taurus if you plan to get 1500+ fps out of it...The fastest load I have is 1450 fps using W-296. I can get you close to 1500 using a 140 gr SJHP Remington. Other then that I doubt you will see 1500 fps from a 6" barrel without over stressing the gun. I have not seen much data for Lil'Gun for use in .357 magnum. I do have one loading for 1600 fps and that was with a lead bullet, but I have no idea how long the test barrel was and I will not post it here. It is, in my opinion, too hot.

You can get 1500 fps, but I won't and I don't. I have dropped deer using a Colt SAA with 4 3/4 barrel and 1200 fps using a 140 gr SJHP Remington bullet.

You will note that I have not posted any load data here as my loads for the top end of my Ruger 6 1/2" are rather hot and NONE are above 1450 fps.

My VERY BEST advice to you is to purchase at least 2 loading manuals and read them several times. I have no idea of your loading skill levels so I must give that advice...I have gone through 6 load data manuals and most keep the 158 grain bullet to 1200 fps.

BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL OF SOMEONE ELSES DATA...IF IT IS NOT WRITTEN IN A LOAD MANUAL...FEAR THAT LOAD. ALWAYS WORK UP ANY LOAD YOU ARE STARTING. NEVER START AT THE TOP LOAD... Or you may suffer KA-BOOM...

Bushmaster !
I do loads in 45 Colt,454 Casull,44 mag, and 45-70.
Yes, I wonder about some loads.At what I look at, are down right scary.
I wouldn't use any of them.Rifle included.
Sometimes, the milder loads will get the job done.The hot loads, can be a waste of powder,just for the sake of being faster, or flatter shooting.
And, those hot loads can reduce the case life too.Pressures skyrockets.
And problems....
A paper target or an animal won't know the difference-dead is dead.
Since my 1884 Springfield 45-70Govt arrived,my factory loads had to be stripped down.Re done from scratch.As those Winchester boxes had nothing about "For Trap Door Rifles". The pressures would have been way too high.Didn't want them to find their way into that Springfield. The NEF, would have been OK though.
Powder was replaced by American Pioneer Powder 2F. Bullets replaced with lead.Now,I can use in either rifle.An added plus,is the recoil is milder.
Those loads still has plenty of "thump"to them.
The loads were done the the old way.
Those 60 rounds, cost me,minus tax,$100.00.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Forty-five/Seventyranger...The loads that were posted in that particular post were to explain to d-hoffman that attaining the fps he wanted would be hard pressed to achieve and for that Taurus might be a bit hot. The loads that I did list are my hunting loads and my Colt is loaded down to 1200 fps. and all of these firearms do shoot accurately at these loadings or I wouldn't use them for hunting. My target loads are substancially lower...You will also note that all loads are for 140 grain bullets. In particularly the Hornady's JHP and Remington's SJHP. My loads are very carefully loaded and tested for MY firearms. You will aslo note that I posted a WARNING... Very Happy

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4570Ranger
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

Very Happy
Agree.
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d_hoffman
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Joined: Feb 13, 2007
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Location: Chillicothe, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

I went to the gun show and got my loading components and ended up getting the Remington 158gr SJHP, Starline brass, Winchester small pistol mag primers and Alliant 2400 powder. Couldn't find Lil' Gun. I had them loaded up @ 14gr which he said should be at 1400 fps. being a new pistol I'm not expecting super accuracy because it hasn't had enough rounds put through it to be "broke in". I did get a group of about 4" at 50 yards off-hand. I don't think that was too bad considering not being familiar with it and for it being a new gun. How many rds. do you think it would take to do a proper break in? Or was I told wrong about having to break it in.

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PaulS
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Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching a newbie to reload Reply with quote

d_hoffman,
Don't take this wrong but I doubt that you will see 1400 fps with any 158 grain bullet from a 357 magnum. If he is telling you that is what he is getting, he needs to get a chronograph and prove it. The velocities listed in the books are over-rated to say the least. In my 35 years the Speer manual has always been the closest to actual velocity listed as being achievable. most books run from 100 to 200 fps faster than I get out of my guns as read by two different chronographs. I would expect no more than 1300 or less - 1250 or so. You might get 1400 with a 10 or 14" bbl.
Not trying to hex you or vex you - just trying to prepare you for the reality of the situation.
As hunting loads goyou might get better accuracy from hot loads generated by H110 or WW296. They are the powder (they are the same powder - according to Mr. Hodgdon) that gives the highest velocity in 357 magnum. (in my 35 years of experience)

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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