Vince,

But you see Parker Hale was simply a sportizing company (they did produce some firearms inhouse but I'm taking general about their hunting rifles), they took military firearms that were surplused and military Mauser 98 actions (Mainly from the Spanish Santa Barbara Arsenal) to produce their commercial rifles, they are no different then a hunter taking a Mauser 98 and cutting back the stock, execpt for the fact they generally did a better job then bubba's.

Even the M82/C3 is effectivly a rebranded Mauser 98 action that Parker Hale put together.

Dimitri

Dimitri...You and Vince are right and no one is arguing that point. The old military rifles were born and bred from sporting rifles and vice-versa. What we are saying is that the military rifles of today are not designed nor do they have any connection with sporting rifles of today. They are not related and do not convert (sporterize) very well to hunting rifles...The calibres may in some cases, but not all. Nothing like coming across a hunter skipping through the woods in camo and an M16 to really gets the adrenalin moving...

Bushmaster wrote:

Nothing like coming across a hunter skipping through the woods in camo and an M16 to really get the adrenalin moving...

Bushy, mate, the mere thought of that frightens eleven sorts of crap outa me. I don't even want to think about what he may be "hunting".

Cheers, Vince

In almost every post on the AK-47/7.62X39, on almost every board I've seen this dead horse beaten about, the claim that the gun and round approximates the .30 WCR or .30-30 Winchester is followed by the disclaimer (nearly). Then does the .30 carbine (nearly) approximate the AK-47/7.62X39, or the .45 acp (nearly) approximate that? NO. Yet anyone of these WILL KILL A WHITE TAIL DEER. Each has that capability.

I have never seen this argument definitively resolved on ANY website. I don't expect I ever will. I have contained my opinion to the original question asked "is a powerful enough round to drop a big buck". Personal infatuations often get in the way of common sense. For numerous reasons, my two white tail rifles right now are a Mod. 98 in 7X57 (which I have bubba'ed) and a Mod. 98 in 8mm Mauser. IN MY OPINION they are both YK3 compliant.

And a well placed .22 LR will drop an elephant....Doesn't make it a good choice for hunting elephants... Unless you are into real excitment for the chase (by an angry elephant that is).

This is getting to be quite the conversation...No problem for us to have a heated discusion as long as no one gets mad. O K???

Ahhhhhhh......... I'll stick with my rifles that were designed as hunting rifles and do the job as they were designed to do. I don't need nor lust for a military weapon ...........to each their own I guess......... not heated here.......

My sentiments exactly... and my intent, was to express an opinion without stepping on toes. I do feel however that we need to excersize caution in recommending or endorsing marginal equipment or practices. We do not always know the experience or skill level of persons making a post or asking a question.

I certainly would not want to tell someone with NO knowledge of firearms, anatomy of elephants or the power of prayer, to shoot an elephant with a .22. (Don't get your bowels in an uproar bushmaster, I know you were just being sarcastic).


I think that very good advice has been offered here. I think good advice only works when it's followed. Knowledge and or wisdom however must be gained through experience it seems. Still some are very lucky that whitetails are not generally known for turning on folks that pi$$ them off.

Rengerizit,

Sorry for getting your post offtopic, but MY personal definitive answer to your question is with proper hunting loads a 7.62x39mm Russian will be able to take out deer HUMANINLY and Quickly in ranges under 100 yards based on the energy levels of the ammo.

On a related note the 22LR has been PROVEN effective atleast once as a one shot grizzly bear stopper. Bella Twin a 63 year old native women in Alberta took in 1953 the largest Grizzly ever taken in Alberta when while she was picking barries near Slave Lake the grizzly went to attack her and she shot it with the single shot 22LR she was carrying knocking it out cold.



Dimitri

Bella Twin:

Sometime around 1950 there began to be many accounts of grizzly bears in the Swan Hills. The Bella Twin incident is the most famous. She brought down a huge one with a puny 22-caliber rifle. It all happened on a spring day in 1953.


I have read several different accounts of this legendary story and even had the good fortune of speaking with her grandson. As tall-tales tend to be, they are all slightly different. Therefore, I will recount just what I believe to be the facts. There is an interesting side note as well, (R.W.H Eben-Ebenau) purchased this bear’s skull from Bella Twin.

With peashooter in hand, it looks fairly clear that she killed this big-boy out of self- defense. After firing a few shots, a bullet caught the bear in the eye, dropping it on the spot. She may very well be 1953’s luckiest person. It was again estimated to weigh about 1000 lbs. and was some kind of a record breaker. Break out the Boone and Crocket book and the skull measure 16 6/16 by 9 11/16 inches.


On more than one occasion, I have run across people slagging the Boone and Crocket records as being somewhat questionable. Even if their bookkeeping is not 100% accurate, no doubt about it, these are still sizable creatures.

Source:
www.brassmonkeyproduct...Part3.html

4rum,

Not to dispute the "source" but how the heck do you fire off multipul 22LR's to a HUGE grizzly while its attacking with a single shot 22LR ??

Never heard the story being said that she shot more then a single shot.

Dimitri

My guess would be (if any of this 'tall tale' is credible) is that she reloaded. Single shot does not designate single use. Most firearms whether breech or muzzle loaded are capable of being replaced to battery and made suitable for subsequent firings.

4Rum,

The Grizzly got the shot through the eye with a 22LR round and it hit the brain and the bear dropped that is fact not a tall tail.

How many shots it was can be debated, personally I would figure in that situation I'd probably have been bear dinner by the time I got a chance to reload a break action 22LR.

Dimitri

I was not there. I cannot attest to the bears physical condition when a stray bullet entered it's eye. With admittedly limited research, I cannot find any other eye witness account of this wonderful legend.

Dimitri wrote:

Rengerizit, Sorry for getting your post offtopic, but MY personal definitive answer to your question is with proper hunting loads a 7.62x39mm Russian will be able to take out deer HUMANINLY and Quickly in ranges under 100 yards based on the energy levels of the ammo. :)Dimitri

'Mitri....I'd agree with that. A factory hunting load or handload in 7.62mmx39 would be capable of a humane kill at that range on that size deer.

Now, as to the bear story.....there is just no way the bear would have been able to get anywhere near me. It would never be able to get through the extremely large, stinking mess of slippery brown "matter" that would be building behind me as I run. In fact, I reckon I would run fair into the middle of next week in about 5 steps.

Cheers, Vince

Vince wrote:

Now, as to the bear story.....there is just no way the bear would have been able to get anywhere near me. It would never be able to get through the extremely large, stinking mess of slippery brown "matter" that would be building behind me as I run. In fact, I reckon I would run fair into the middle of next week in about 5 steps. Cheers, Vince

Hmmmmm........ do you scare easy Vince..............