Vince, I have had excellent results with AA 2230, if you have access to the powder. It produces fine accuracy, good velocity and is clean burning in the semi-auto guns.

Sounds like you may be dealing with two different twist rates in the two guns. That might be the reason you have had problems with the Howa. I like Remington and Winchester rifles, but in truth, all things being equal, the Howa should shoot better than 1/3 as good as the Remington. Most rifles in 223 are capable of half inch groups with just about any bullet weight, if the weight and twist are compatable, and all else is in good shape.
Ed

SwampFox wrote:

Sounds like you may be dealing with two different twist rates in the two guns. That might be the reason you have had problems with the Howa. Ed

Gidday Ed. yes you are right mate....we are working with two different twist rates. there is also the human factor.....the nut behind the butt. the history of the Howa is unknown....it was purchased second hand, but it has delivered some pretty good results so we are not complaining.

I think that is was popgun, or Bushy, or Dallan, or wildswalker....could have been anyone here said that you don't need benchrest competition accurracy for a hunting rifle, which I agree with wholeheartedly. If it can headshoot a rabbit at 100m then it is well and truly accurate enough.

Cheers, Vince

Ah, the Howa is second hand. Vince, did any of you guys remove all of the copper fowling from the Howa?

I use a plugged chamber and a bore full of coper solvent left for one week. The used gun is restored to full, as new, accuracy, even in real badly fouled bores.
Ed

gidday Swampy. The Howa has been cleaned fairly well, but it never hurts to give it a more thorough clean. I'd say that this is well and truly on the books.

Thanks mate,

Cheers, Vince

Hello. It is 11.20 pm in Finland. Nobody likes VihtaVuori N-133 powder? Some benchrest shooters uses it in USA. There is very good made in Finland non tozig bore cleaning foam : "milfoam Forrest"(earliar name Forrest Profesional). It is very easy to use. Sorry my language. Kauko

Kauko Waskilampi wrote:

Hello. It is 11.20 pm in Finland. Nobody likes VihtaVuori N-133 powder? Some benchrest shooters uses it in USA. There is very good made in Finland non tozig bore cleaning foam : "milfoam Forrest"(earliar name Forrest Profesional). It is very easy to use. Sorry my language. Kauko

Gidday Kauko, welcome to the greatest hunting forum, and worst kept secret on the net mate. Grab a beer, maybe a Lapin Kulta, (Fins don't like beer do they mate ) sit awhile, kick the feet up and relax.

Feel free to have a say on anything you see here. The best part of this forum is the williness of the members to pass on the benefit of their knowledge and experience....and its experience from all around the world. Look forward to hearing more from you mate.

Cheers, Vince

Thank You Vince. Fins drinks beer like hell. I do´nt so much. You knows beers. Fine. Some times I drink, so it must be Lapin Kulta From Santa Claus Contry. Kippis =cheers Kauko

Santa Claus country....Lapland...ok. I have been known to have a cold beer on a hot day on the odd occasion...we aussies are like that.

I actually make my own beer, or home brew as we call it. Not much alcohol in it though....only 4.6% - 4.9%, but its enough to enjoy.

Kippis mate

Cheers, Vince

Hey Kauko,
In the US most folks refer to the Finnish powder as VV, VN or VVN. I use VV N-560 in my 300 WSM and have found by personal use and many comments from other users over the years that the VV powders are great, if a little expensive for us here. Most folks find that the powders give excellent accuracy, high velocity and reduced pressures. Not a bad combination. I actually do have a VVO reloading manual.

By the way, I met one of your special ops guys in a local gun shop. He was here going through the EOD School at Eglin. The shop had a lot of guns and he dropped in on occasion to look and talk guns. I have also met several of your silhouette champions at the IHMSA International events here in the US.
Ed

Howdy. Mr Vince , if You needs a new nickname Brew Master ok? In Finland can to find only Hodgdon power. It is to easy i think. I alvis use VihtaVuori. It is easyst to me.

Kauko Waskilampi wrote:

Howdy. Mr Vince , if You needs a new nickname Brew Master ok? In Finland can to find only Hodgdon power. It is to easy i think. I alvis use VihtaVuori. It is easyst to me.

Gidday Kauko. A new nickname nah, I get called all kinds of things by my mates.....none of which are appropriate to show here

Many aussies brew their own beer....nothing difficult about it. There are a couple of companies out here who provide the necessary equipment to do it, and its nice and cheap. I would have thought that the Fins would do so as well....I mean you guys enjoy your beer as much as we do.

Hogdon powders are great. In fact, some of them are actually made here in Australia. I use AR2208 exclusively for my 30.30WIN and .243WIN. Hogdon market this very same powder as Varget. It has to be one of the best all round powders available. It was originally developed for military use in the 7.62mm NATO round. It has quite a good following in the USA and here in aussie.

Cheers, Vince

Hello Vince. You have right all about off beer. I wrote wrong. It must bee: It is not easy to find Hodgdon powdre Here in Finland. Varget is good for me, but I must use N-135 and N-140 or N- 540. Yours Kauko.

Welcome Kauko,
In the USA Hodgdon powders are easy to find and less expensive that the import powders like VihtaVuori. I will say that VV powders seem to cover a wide range of cartridges just as the Hodgdon powders do here.
To me it doesn't matter what powder you use as long as you can get the accuracy that you want and the velocity that you need.
I have used many different brands of powder in the past but I now use Hodgdon powders exclusively. I find them to be consistant and high quality powders that fill my needs. I would expect that Hodgdon powders are the expensive powders in your country due to import regulations and taxes. I feel that you should use what you want.
Paul

I thank You, Paul S(=Sniper?). Vihtavuori must be ok for me. There is 26 diferent sorts from VihtaVuori like Hodgdon HP 38-50 BMG. It must be inaf. Yours Kauko

Kauko,
The "S" is for my last name. It wouldn't do for me to be a sniper. I would rather help people than kill them. I want you to understand that I am not offended but I am a minister. I got a laugh out of the thought of being a sniper.
Keep laughing,
Paul