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Weaponry for CCW
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Glockman,

Many Canadians are getting non-resident Utah Permits, dont even have to go to Utah to get it! Laughing

To bring a handgun or rifle into the US I need to fill a forum 6A (I think) and have a non-resident permit to hunt somewhere in the US from what I've been reading. So CCW, hunting license, the BATFE forum and you can bring a firearm into the US and carry in states that accept your permit. Smile

PS I figured you carried a Glock. Laughing And I've got plenty of things older then me, my rifle for one is older then me. Very Happy

Dimitri

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george20042007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

glockman55 asks a good question, how would you get a gun across the border? What gun could you have? Isn't it more difficult to have a sidearm as opposed to a long gun in Canada? 18??? I can't remember back that far. I do enjoy your comments though Dimitri. I would have guessed you to be a lot older. You have my respect, and that's something you should cherish Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Keep it coming...
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Getting it across the boarder is easy you just need to fill out a BATFE "Autherization for Temperary Importation of Firearms". And to get that you need to have a valid hunting license in any US state or be going to a reconized shooting competition like the CMP matches.

You need a Restricted license to own handguns which means they want you to know a few more things about the law then a Non-Restricted license, (The one I got) the firearms testing in Canada is mainly geared towards being safe with firearms in there use, storage and the like. Its pretty much common sense stuff like ACTS and PROVE, not putting smokeless powder in a blackpowder muzzle loader, etc. Smile

With a restricted license in Canada you can own any semi-automatic with a barrel less then 18.5", AR-15's variant (AR-10, SR-25 etc), any handgun with a barrel bigger then 4" (execpt for .32ACP and .25ACP calibers thouse are prohibited execpt for certian Olympic shooting handguns). Smile

Once I'm out of college and become alittle secure in my finaces I'll probably go and upgrade my license to restricted so I can own handguns. First one I'm going to purchase is probably a Inglis 9mm HighPower though. Very Happy

Dimitri

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Arron
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

I have had a permit to carry(also can be used as permit to purchase) for Iowa for about 12 years give or take a little. We(Iowa) do not accept an out-of-state permit to carry unless it is Professional useage permit. We have a class that goes through of all of Iowa's deadly or lethal threat laws and codes. They(permits) are issued by the sherrif of each of the 99 counties. Some place restrictions for when and where you can carry some do not. I do not, other than the Federal ones. However if a place should be "posted" then I am not legally supposed to carry in those places, however if they do not and I am asked to leave then I am obliged to do so. Iowa is a Discretionary Issue state but we are working on getting it a Shall Issue state(IowaConcealedCarry.) Iowa also does not have a restriction on what you can have as a carry firearm as far as I know; I have found nor heard of any. The permit does not cover rifles but does cover any knife over 6" in blade length, as well as any handgun or combination of firearms and knives though I would use a little discreation in this area. We do have an Open Carry law but I was instructed in my class that concealed means just that, concealed! If you got the permit then make it unseeable. As far as what I prefer to carry it depends on what and where I am going and the time of year. If I am going out to dad's after Sunday Serivce than I might have the 7.5" .45Colt Blackhawk on the right side, if I am going to the store late at night on a drug run for the wife than I may have the G29 in a Fobus on the right side with a Fobus carrier and two spare mags on the left. I do have the Pearce mag extesions on the mags as they fit my hands better that way and I hate the front sight on the Glock, need to get more white paint and make it all white. Sometimes I will carry my Phoeinx Arms HP22 in an ankle holster with Aguila SuperMax in it. It hits just as hard as any .380 out there and that soft lead is gonna' mash whatever it hits, and 12 rounds will bring down ANY human I know of even if it is a .22LR. Though I have taken it out of an active role as a carry piece. I do not fully trust it to cycle correctly so it will be a target pistol until I do have confidence in it to perform as it should. And truthfully guys most things are going to happen VERY close so you do not need as much as you might think and if someone places the muzzle in my general direction no matter the caliber I am going to get VERY VERY NERVOUS. Also you need to think about the possibility of an over-penetrating round and what it will hit when it exits the primary target. This is a BIG problem with the high-vel 9x19mm FMJ's and why they are LOUSY at "putting down" someone. They just punch a hole through and leave a very small permanent wound channel. And you are civilly as well as criminally liable for ANY ROUND YOU SEND DOWNRANGE no matter where it stops or what it hits before it gets there. This is another reason why I like my .45Colt those 225gr Silver tips and 255gr Cowboy type loads WILL reliably put anyone down and will not be too much of a problem with overpenetration as the 10mm in the G29 does. But that is usually what I carry the most due to light weight and peformance. That is why I bought it and I am a little different from everyone else, but it is not for those who do not take to recoil lightly. The 200gr FMJ Blazer will blow any loose dirt around on the ground and you can feel the muzzle blast behind and to the side when this little monster goes off. It has something like a 30 pound double captured recoil spring to tame the energy down to a manageable level and even then it is snappy. I have never shot anything that made my hand go numb after three rounds, this did with some 155gr XTP's I loaded at moerate speed. I even had a frined shoot it at the range one day he could not handle it after five rounds and this guy is a magnum monkey from the word go! He loves the magnums, and these were too much for him for any length of time. I do not load this level any more because it is a Glock and the chamber is not supported so I almost had a case or two rupture not a safe thing, In any other type of firearm they would have been OK but in the Glock they are not. Another pistol I have been carrying alot lately is my Hi-Point C9 9x19mm. Yes these are "cheap" but they function and are not too bad in the accurracy department at least for me anyway they work and I would trust my life and families lives with one, and I do. I give them my endorsement wholeheartedly. I am going to be looking for another small framed semi-auto as I am not carrying the HP22 anymore and I would like something with a little more bullet weight. I am going to be looking into the Bersa line a little more in the coming year. I would like the Kel-Tec and I have shot a .380 chambered one and I am ok with it but the recoil is a bit much for me in that light a platform so I think a little more metal would be good but if the money were in hand and the deal was there I would come home with a Kel-Tec without hesitation. I always keep factory rounds in my carry firearms and never use any reloads unless I had no other choice just one less thing I want someone else to use against me in a civil suit. I have some Aguila IQ rounds that I have for my P-91. These are a very interesting bullet that is worth looking into they will not defeat body armour and will go through 3/4" ballistic plexi-glass and but not over penetrate soft tissue like a living body. Those are some Mexicans(Aguila's employees) I would love to sit down with over some Scots Wiskey. ANyway if you carry make sureyou can handle it! If you should have to use it and do in fact cause injury to another then you will have to live with it and pay for it for every living moment you have. Not a thing to be taken lightly. Also remember anythign that you have to use can be taken away and used on you or someone else so know a thing or two about retention. Also something else to have a is a good alternative light scourse I have a SureFire G2 that will make 65 Lumens for about one hour that alot od time, and you cannot look into this ligh for more than a few seconds at atime and it will leave a b.lind spot on your retina that will not go away for some time which means that you can get the heck out of Dodge without even pulling the weapon from it holster which is always a good thing if it can be avoided. Or it can give you the opportunity to kick the BG(bad guy)in the privates and then proceeded to break a knee or two to make sure they will not follow, you CAN recover from a hit to the privates but a busted knee and you are not walking very fast for a long time if ever again. Then you are only looking at an assualt charge if it should go to court and not a an attempted murder charge alot harder to fight. Also I carry a GOOD folding knife right now it is made by Columbia River Knife anf Tool(CRKT) and is very sharp. I also have a Wenger pocket knife for all of the features. As far I am concerned it makes no difference what one is carrying or caliber as long it is reliable and they have confidence they can use it effectively and responsably. In any event it is not a thing to be taken lightly or made fun of it is deadly serious and should be dealt with in the most level-headed way possible. The taking of life is a bad thing and should be avoided until no other option is viable. That is how I try to think things through before I put something on my hip, and "go about armed." Sorry to be long winded but there is alot of things about this most do not think of and I hope I have brought some light to them.
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Arron
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

I forgot there are two restrictions on my permit to carry they are

Invalid when consuming or under the influence of alcohol and or illegal drugs. probably not correct in the wording but but that is basic enough to make sense. Again sorry for being long winded on that post.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Arron,

No problem being long winded, just when you post alot click the Enter button makes it easyer for some people (like me) to fallow smaller paragraphs. Embarassed

Also as for your carrying of a knife in Iowa up to 6" that reminds me in Canada a blade 3" and under is legal to carry as its not a weapon according to the law but a utility knife, you know so the police dont end up arresting everyone that has a Swiss Army knife etc on them. Shocked

Dimitri

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glockman55
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Good post, a lot of good info. But I don't agree on your saying any size cal. will do for concealed carry. The main reason that I see for caring is for self defence, and the 22, or 380 in my book are just too small. If I was ever in a situation where I was forced to draw my weapon to defend myself, I'm not going to try to scare someone, I've drawn it to stop him. As for the Glock, I've shot over 1000 rounds through mine and my Dad has well over 15000 through one of his, never a problem and you can't see any noticeable ware on the gun. I don't reload for my carry gun and don't plan on it. Too much at stake. And Michigan's Concealed Carry Permit is recognized in many states, and it is a very good and informative 14 hour class, and you have to re-qualify every 5 years. Just my 2 cents.
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tracker
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

I'm thinking it would probably be easier for us (Canadian) to fill out the form Dmitri mentioned and carry a short gun across the border than it would be to carry one around in Canada, goofy huh?

It's a lot easier to get permission to carry a long gun, restrictions on short guns are, well restrictive. My point about the .22 that hits being a better weapon than the .44 that misses I still stand by, the point being that it's up to the shooter to get trained for whatever he/she is carrying. You don't see carpenters very often using an axe to drive a nail, know what I mean?

And Dimitri..God I wish I could remember being young enough to be too young for anything. You do show wisdom and experience beyond your years my friend.

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glockman55
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Oh I agree 100%, a person has no business carrying a weapon he/she can't hit what they are shooting at. That's a good way to end up dead, by their own gun. I have a range set up on my property that I use as much as I can.

Take Care: Glock
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Arron
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

GLKMN55, I understand what you are saying about the caliber and I do agree, however there are other factors to be taken into account here as well. How many senior aged folks can handle a .45ACP, or even for that matter a .38Spec in a snub-nose? Or be ableto work a slide on a semi-auto? Or in the case of my wife who has a ton of damage from what she has to her joints, cannot comfortablly shoot much over a .38Special in a 4" GP100, but she can handle the 9 round .22LR revolver and hit center mass on any human up to 25yds. I would say it is better to have this than nothing. That is what I mean about having something rather than nothing. I read a story one time in one of the firearms rags I read from time to time where the author was visiting relatives in another state and one of them had a carry permit and when he was talking to this person he asked him what he carried and was shown a .22LR double Derringer and he(author) kind of laughed at him and then the guy said in reply: "Well what do you have on you?"; the author had nothing to say and he understood the situation immediately. Carry what you can and be able to use it effectively and you will probably come out just fine. And personally the .22LR is one of the last cartidges I would want to be hit with they like to bounce around off of heavy bones and punch through them on a direct path and being a lead piece they will leave alot of lead to cause problems down the road, like lead poisoning.
Like I said I understand what you mean and I do agree but at times "THE" choice is not the "RIGHT" choice. But something is better than nothing in this case I have to say. And that is my story and I am sticking to it! HA HA
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Gotta share this story with you Arron. My oldest brother and I were in a nice bar in downtown Winnipeg(this would have been about 12 years ago) shooting some pool and having a couple of Scotches. We went there because the tables and the Scotch were both good. Turns out there was a reunion there of the original Devil's Brigade from WW2 (regiment that was 1/2 American 1/2 Canadian, all badass). First time in my life I thought a bunch of little old men in a bar could kick my butt. We could overhear some of the conversations and this one old guy from the States was complaining because Canada Customs wouldn't let him bring his personal carry piece across the border. It was a Colt 1911 .45ACP, so.....some of those seniors might surprise us. Smile

I think with any firearm, just like any other tool, use what's going to work, but the user has to be comfortable with what he/she is using, that's key. Common sense. And then of course, train train train. I have a friend who's a female cop and I'm a bigger and stronger than she is, but I don't think I could touch her in a competition with a 9mm.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

The best caliber gun to carry concealed is the caliber of the gun you have confidence in to get you to tomorrow. If you can do the job with a 22RF then by all means use it. If it means that you have to carry a 45 colt single action or the old 1911 then great! I believe that the shooter and his level of confidence are the really important things. It can make up for a lot of things, including the size of your bullets.
I am not comfortable carrying anything other than my 357 mag, so that's what I carry.

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sniper
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

DallanC wrote:
It seems there is some personal feelings tied to this subject, I'd just like to remind people on both sides of a fence to be conciderate of others feelings / experiences. Its fine to discuss and debate things as long as respect is still maintained for the other.

For a small carry weapon I like the look of an auto as it seems they are thinner and less bothersome, but one cant dismiss the reliability of a wheelgun. For those that carry revolvers, do you rest the hammer on an empty cylinder?
-DallanC

Well said!

Autos are fine, and reliable, and many are very affordable. But smaller revolvers, such as my personal favorite, the Smith model 60 with 3" barrel are a great choice.
Modern revolvers have a transfer bar ignition, or firing pin block in the action, which means the hammer will not touch the firing pin if the trigger is not pulled. Long story short, it works reliably, and you can carry with no empty cylinders. The Colt Single Action Army and similar vintage firearms had fixed firing pins, which could contact the primer if the hammer was struck, which is how the empty cylinder carry came to be.


Last edited by sniper on Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Smith & Wesson and Colt use a "hammer block" that drops away from the hammer when the hammer starts its backward travel and rises to block the hammer when the trigger is released. They have been using this system long before Ruger came up with the "transfer bar" (a new concept). Consider how old the model 10 and the model 29 are and you get a better idea as to how long the "hammer block" has been around. Colt could have been using the "hammer block" system as far back as 1905 in their Police Positive .38. I know Smith & Wesson was. As much as I respect Ruger firearms, I own a Blackhawk, I really don't care for the "transfer bar".

As far as I know Smith & Wesson still uses the fixed firing pin in the hammer.

Single actions are a different story. As I said I own a Blackhawk and a Colt SAA in the same calibre. Both are 2nd generation handguns. The Colt is 40 years old.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW Reply with quote

Dang, Bushy, you are right! Ignore Shut mah mouf'. I shoulda taken my Smith apart a couple more times!
It's the Rugers that have the multiple whap.

Anyhoo, the empty cylinder carry is advisable when you have a revolver that doesn't have that safety feature, whether hammer block or transfer bar, and they seem to work very well.
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