yes and i carry in a small of the back holster so if i reach for my wallet i can easily grab my gun. if they take my wallet im already dead.

you asked a nonvalid question. you assumed i would give up my wallet which is a wrong assumption. to get my wallet you would have to shoot faster than i do and in that case i would probaly shoot as fast as i could. i took the class so if i feel that case is going to happen i will have the tools needed handy to get the job done.

now i ask you a question.

you and your wife are downtown eating and as you leave somebody pulls a knife on you and demands your money. do you?

A. meekly hand it to him?

B. think as you hand him your money "GEE i wish i had my pistol sitting under my car seat in my hand?"

C. run and leave your wife there alone with the robber?

D. pull your pistol you are illegally cattying?

E. scream and hope the police arrive before you and your wife are killed?

F. pull your legal permitted conceal carry pistol and legally blow his brains out?

i prefer not to be robbed but if i am i would much prefer choice F. wouldnt you?

you must not assume anything and you assumed they already had my wallet so you may assume someone who is no threat while they really are.

if im in downtown "CITY" anywhere which i dont know i assume everyopne is a threat. get robbed a couple of times and you will as well.

O.K. spacedone, I just can't get you to see what I'm trying to get you to see. In my scenario, the threat is diminishing, and the law out here (like in most other states) says I can't take out my gun & shoot because there is no threat to me anylonger. If I were to take further action, I'd go to jail.

I'm afraid there are numerous folks getting CCW permits just to carry a gun legally that don't realize the responsibility they are taking on or have the proper mind set (I won't let that happen to me, I gotta CCW permit, & I gotta gun, & I'm gonna shoot because I can, & tha'ts that.)

Keep it coming...

thats like saying i gotta CCW permit and i gotta gun but come rob me anyway.

if a robber is to the point he has your wallet the statistics say your laying on the ground dead.

not a maybe or a could be but a statistic on the nightly news.

im 6`1 190 lbs with a traditional black belt in karate, it would take a desperate act for me to even need to pull my pistol. im more dangerous than my gun is. my wife is a brittle BLIND diabetic, she cant run and she cant fight. we travel every few weeks to large cities to places we know nothing about and carry semilarge amounts of cash for our business.

its easy for antigun people like you {the impression your making} to put out scenarios where it is wrong to defend yourself or loved ones. the FACT is a MAN must do what a MAN must do {even if your a woman} to protect himself and his loved ones. i chose to do it LEGALLY. i hope i never ever ever have to pull my pistol in anger or self defense but the FACT is if someone threatens my BLIND wife I WILL DO WHAT IT REQUIRES TO DEFEND HER TO THE LIMIT OF MY MORALS.

we can discuss all kinds of scenerios and make all kinds of "what i would do or what is legal" but truth is truth.

Spacedone,

George is just saying to watch out for the law because under sertian conditions it may or maynot be legal according to state law for you to pull your gun out

If your in the process of being robbed its ok, but if they aready have your wallet and are leaving its not ok in his example.

Dimitri

and my point ive made over and over is if they have my wallet they have already killed me.

i have a wallet and i have a gun next to my wallet which one would you pull with your blind wife standing there and someone with the morals to rob you at gunpoint is threatning you.

LETS BE REAL HERE.

they are already robbing you at gun point what are the odds your not going to be killed.

i can make up famtasy scenerios where i will always go to jail for protecting myself or my loved ones.

what WOULD you do in real life. your walking down the street and a masked man starts coming up and starts to pull a gun..... you have 1 second to decide to either be a victim or to protect yourself..... ok seconds up Dimitri what did you do???????

your walking down the street and you see 3 punk gangbangers robbing a little old lady at knife point and you see one of them stab her twice. what do you do????????

your in bed at home and you hear someone break your front room window at 3 am. what do you do??????

i could go on and on.

if your unarmed you either try to run and save yourself and leave your loved one to take what happens or you step up and Die. if your armed legally you have a option. maybe not a good one but a option.


George is asking a question with no real answer {which is what antigun people do everyday}

4 million people a year defend themselves with firearms every single year in the U.S.

since George asked a question with no answer ill give you a challenge. go to little rock ark to the huge hospital in the poor side of town at 10 pm. walk across the block to the piggly wiggly and break a hundred dollar bill. now walk back to the hospital.

my old ambulance has been robbed there 6 times in less than 2 years.

a CCW is a TOOL just like a pistol is. if yiou dont have the CCW tool you must either be a victim or be illegal. with the CCW you can legally carry the tool you need if the actual need arises.

Spacedone,

I understand your point

However for your senario of:

Quote::

what WOULD you do in real life. your walking down the street and a masked man starts coming up and starts to pull a gun..... you have 1 second to decide to either be a victim or to protect yourself..... ok seconds up Dimitri what did you do???????

I couldn't do much No CCW in Canada, and even if I was in the US I'm 19 so no CCW anyways.

Dimitri

wouldnt you like for some bystander who has a legal CCW to step up and protect you?

until recently missouri had the law so if you broke into my house at 3am i had to flee my own house by even crawling thru a window if i had no door in that room and had to get my blind wife out of the house the same way. guess what? i would blow you back out the window faster than you broke it and then argue in court about why i did it. but i would be alive to argue then.

a CCW does not give anyone the right to shoot anyone else for any reason, but it does allow you to be prepared to defend yourself if NEEDED. and you will go over that in the CCW class. remember in situations like this you only have seconds to decide what your going to do and react.

read the U.S. news about how many kids have been killed in schools by nuts with guns. it would have only taken one teacher with a CCW and a pistol to stop as many kids being killed. look at how many robberies in the U.S. happen where the robbers kill the victims. you may still die but you have alot better chance of living if you defend yourself than if you strust in the morals of a robber who sticks a guin in your face and tells you give me your money or ill blow your head off.

the class covers safety and the laws. it is 10 hours long and even tho i dislike the NRA they have designed a very good class covering almost anything you can imagine.

a CCW is not about shooting people it is about you being able to protect yourself legally.

its not a safe world out there. people want what you have and some just want your life. it happens every 12 minutes someplace.

do you want to be a victim or do you want the option to actually protect yourself.
[the average response time to get a deputy to my house if i call them is 3 days}

Spacedone, it's obvious you'll never get the point I was trying to make using scenarios. & you offend me when you say I am anti-gun. That's hardly close to who I am. It's funny how others see what it is I'm saying, but, you keep side stepping my point, so here it goes...

I agree with you about not becoming a victim, be alert, be ready, and back away when you can (one of your choices) or you can be like Clint Eastwood & look forward to "make my day" (sounds like the choice you'd make). If the threat to you diminishes, the law states you have no need to defend yourself, but if you choose to shoot, you'll be convicted.

Out here in Arizona we have open carry as well as CCW. I've done both depending on the environment I'm in. So, the bad guy could already have his gun out before me, I'm going to be careful in picking the right time to act, but if he walks away, I can't do a thing legally.

We also have the Castle law, any uninvited person to my home can be seen as a threat & I can take action without fear of the law. This extends to my car if someone tries to hi-jack it, it falls under the castle law.

I think I'll back out of this discussion, & say no more. This thread was not intended to be for just two people. If other's are reading this & have been following along, keep one thing in mind, if you have the legal write to have a gun for self-defense, you can't use it if the threat diminishes.
Keep it coming...

i didnt say you were antigun i said

"George is asking a question with no real answer {which is what antigun people do everyday}"

your not seeing my answer at all. if he already has my wallet then im dead or dying already because to get my wallet it would have to be taken by force because i will not give it up by choice. im able if you get in reach to take a gun away from anyone not specifically trained and shove it down there throat. not bragging just a fact of training {not a good choice but one im confident in}

we can make up fantasy scenerios forever of "what if". the fact is i will refuse to give up my wallet unless i am dead or dying period. if your not well trained and in reach i dont need a gun i will physically hurt someone big time {note traditional karate black belt which takes a min of 5 years training to get} if they are over 21 feet away and i can get away i will get away {as im trained to avoid violence unless no other choice} but with my wife i have only 2 choices either give up and trust the robbers morals dont let him shoot us {80 percent of all armed robbers shoot there victims} or start shooting back {not a good choice either but better than the first one}

my wife is BLIND and cant RUN

if they are closer than 21 feet i have 3 choices 1 give up my wallet and hope the robber doesnt shoot me anyway. 2 pull my pistol and start shooting. 3. reach out take robbers gun away and shoot them with there own gun.

i made a post originally about taking a CCW class and learning new things and having fun doing it. you come out with a unreasonable "what if". to get a CCW in missouri i am required to take the CCW class and pass a background check. then i am expected to behave in a lawfull reasonable manner. i am following the LAW so if needed i can defend myself and my loved one. you then say "ooops Spacedone just wants to shoot someone" thus insulting me twice. its a big dangerous world getting more dangerous as people get more desperate as the dollar buys less and less.

remember i travel alot delivering dog to buyers to places ive never been and know nothing about to people i have no real knowledge of sometimes carrying 10s of thousands of dollars {rotts bring good prices and i deliver up to 10 dogs at a time}

notice i reccommended everyone take the class to LEARN. doesnt mean you shouldnt have fun learning.

my sisters been raped
my grandfathers been robbed in his own house
my great uncle was stabbed for his social security check
my best friend has a .25 cal bullet in his chest just for walking on the wrong block in chicago.
another friend was beat almost to death by 6 hoodlums with a baseball bat just because they thought he made a bad remark to a skank

and i live in a small rural town with little comparative violence.

SOOOoooooo, If a guy comes into my house and is rapeing my Daughter or Wife at gun point, knife point, whatever point. and I return home and catch him in the act, and he throws his hands in the air and says,"I give up" I cant kill the SOB? Sorry, I thinks he's already signed his death warrant right their on the spot.
I too am a big fella and have in the past delivered some good ol home grown WHUPASS. But some times that aint enough.
The laws in this country are F'ed up and do not in any way bennefit the victims. My cousin is a Sherriffs deputy and I hear stories that would make you puke. He is in the process of second guessing his choice of career's as he see's the crap going on and dont like it any more. He says that to the police everyone with out a badge is the bad guy, all the time. He refuses to treat people that way.

Crackshot,

Your in Michigan there is a "Castle Doctrine", as far as I know (from reading a few NRA magazines) that means just because of the fact he tresspassed in your house you chould shoot him because of "fear for your and your families life".

Dimitri

Spacedone wrote:

its easy for antigun people like you

Didn't call me an anti-gunner? Looks like you did to me.

By the way, I won't hesitate to defend me or my loved ones, even a stranger under attack, at the risk of loosing my own life. That's been my mind set for most of my life. It appears we have a lot in common, e.g., military, martial arts, disabled wife, spent time in Chicago, Cleveland, San Diego (I know you didn't live in all these places), was self-employed for 12 years traveling in every major city in the U.S. & spent lots of time overseas. At 6' and 255 lbs I'm not victim material, & I have no fear. Unlike you, I've no experience with bad guys outside of fraud.
Keep it coming...

Quote::

At 6' and 255 lbs I'm not victim material,

That is true George for some reason people dont like to pick on big guys. I'm 6ft 2" & 235lbs and I dont get bothered much.

Myself I think people should focus and understand what they are getting into and make sure they arn't victim material instead of worring as much about what they will do when they need to do something. Prevention is the key.

For example:
A Bussince man in a bussince suit with a breif case walking down the street of a "bad area" in a city is more likly to get robbed then the same bussince man dressed in jeans and a shirt with a backpack. Even if in both cases the bussince man has 1,000$ in his wallet.

Being aware of your surroundings and always making sure your "on the ball" to protect yourself or your family is good but with prevention of looking like "victim material" the chance you will need to fall back on your CCW and pull out your gun because of a criminal will be less then before because you took the time to make yourself look not like a good victim.

Dimitri

no depending on the city it doesnt matter how your dressed if your in there neighborhood your a target even if there neighbor invited you

Spacedone,

If a city was that bad I wouldnt step into it if my life depended on it

Dimitri