delboy wrote:

Well this has certainly been an eyeopener for me! After a 2 1/2 hour drive in heavy traffic I flopped down on the ground and fired two rounds at a 100yd. target. Deermanager told me to stop firing and went to retrieve the target as he had seen enough. When I saw it I apologised for my poor marksmanship and used the excuse that I had never held his rifle before but I would do better with practice. He gave me a funny look and told me that I was ok. I had placed both shots 1/2" apart and felt embarrassed by my poor shooting..........................

Wow Delby....1/2 MOA ain't bad at all. Yotebuster is right....could you be putting too much pressure on yourself? Settle down mate, enjoy your shooting and certainly enjoy that standard of shooting....not everyone can duplicate it mate. I go through days where I couldn't hit the ground with my hat.......in three throws !!

Cheers, Vince

well i cant get my 700 bdl remington to shoot any better than these 5 shots at the top. Will this be ok for elk hunting.


or this group of three on the left

wtman,

Welcome to the forums hope you enjoy your stay

Thouse are at most 2.5" groups or so right ?? If so thats better then me.

Happy shooting!

Dimitri

thanks for the welcome. Lots of good info in here. Been finding these great sites slowly but surely. the only problem is with those loads, top target H4831 53.7 i am only getting 2400 fps. the second target is at 2600 fps so i guess it will do. Thinking of pumping it up a grain or two as i have no signs of pressure yet at all and see if they will stay tight. I have my doubts but i know usually there is a tight group slow and tight group fast so i will have to shoot some more boolits.. darn it. Dont you just hate going to the range :) the bottome target is pretty promising with the 3 shot group on the left of bull. Just have to tune it in. to zero and elevate it for 200 zero. the 3 in the bull on bottome target i shot the 2 and then adjusted down 1 click or it would have looked like the 3 shots left of bull. i was getting 2700 out of those 3 and i think they will be ok as well. Just not sure about these sierra game kings at 165 grains.

I think it was Warren Page that said "Only accurate rifles are interesting." But, let's face it, 300 yards is a faaaaar piece!

If a rifle will shoot 2" at 100 yards, 4" at 200, and 6" at 300, it is plenty accurate for most of the hunting that 90% of us do. We are the limiting factor.

The above rifle will make the animal fall down, given it is enough gun, and if shot placement is proper.

Having said that, my personal standard is that if a load or rifle will not do 1 1/2 inches or less at 100 yards, or is erratic, It is replaced.
Of course, the shooter is not replaced, even if he/she can't manage to hit the barn from inside. Generally the gun gets blamed.

Practice, practice, practice! The guy that shoots as little as a box of ammunition a year is better off than the pilgrim who shoots three shots that "cut paper" for sight in just before the deer season opens. The "one box" shooter will be far better with his rifle than the other fellow.

I refused a shot at a huge elk because I hadn't made time to practice with my rifle and new load before the hunt. I didn't have confidence in my ability not to kill one of the cows grazing about 100 yards behind the elk. I KNEW what it would do with 130 gr bullets, but not with the 150 gr. load I was using. I just didn't have confidence in me and my ability to do what was necessary. That's a bad place to be! I got one later, though!

An honest 2" rifle is not spectacular, or bragworthy, but VERY adequate. AND there are few rifles that will not do that, with ammo it likes.

well i guess the .190 group and the .205 with the 165 sierra gameking should kill me an elk as long as the shot is there. With it shooting these groups i could shoot it in the eyeball.

wtman,

I'd suggest agisnt a head shot.

Wind patters might change, bad range estimation etc will lead to a accident. Possibly blowing out its lower jaw and it wont be able to eat etc after that

Dimitri

Nothing wrong with taking a head shot. IF you are sure of your range, rifle, and ability. If you have even the smallest doubt, then don't take one. But I have shot 80% of my deer and elk in the head or neck. I have never blown a jaw off. I have also never had to track one down or lost one. They drop where they stand or walk.

The point is, there are times when a head shot is acceptable, and there are times when it is not. Until you know the diference, don't take one.

Mike,

That is true, but normally just give a blanket statment when it comes to it as I find (no offence to anyone here) alot of hunters "over judge" there ability and without me knowing everyones experiance with shooting, range estimation skills, wind estimation skills and them knowing the balistics of there rifle I figure its better to give a blanket "its not a good idea" statment

Myself I'll admit I'm not good enough to take a head shot.

Dimitri

Personally I would advise against the Sierra gameking for elk,no matter how good your accuracy is.I have had some bad experiences with this bullet even on deer.Read "why a premium bullet"in the reloading forum on this website,I believe its on page three.In my opinion the 165 grain gameking in 30 caliber is a deer bullet at best.Even if accuracy isnt quite as good I would be much more comfortable with a good heavier constructed 180-200 grain Partition, A-frame or similar.

I understand the "blanket statement", however, I try to avoid them. One size does not fit all. I usually try to clarify any statement as I did in the previous post. If you have ANY doubts about your ability, rifle, or range, DO NOT take a head shot. Having a rifle that will shoot 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards, the ability (using a bipod if necessary) to shoot to the rifles accuracy, and the experience (or a rangefinder) to know the range are a must.

Because I can not hit the broad side of a barn from more than 20 yards away with a handgun, I could make a blanket statement and say that in my experience, handguns are too inaccurate for hunting. Instead, I tell anyone who is interested in handgun hunting that they need to practise with the gun and loads they want to hunt with, at hunting ranges (50 to 150 yards), until they can keep them in an 8 inch circle. If they can't get that accurate, they should not hunt with a handgun.

Blanket statements should always have a few caveats.

Mike,

Ok, next time I'll make it less of a blanket statment :).

Dimitri

Last weekend I did something for the very first time – I backed up beyond the 400-yard shooting position to the 500-yard and later to the 600-yard positions.

We had been shooting clay pigeons at 300 yards with the .22-250, .257 Roberts, .300 Win Mag and yes, even the .30-30 (lots of misses with that one!). My shooting partner for the day thought it was too easy which is why ewe backed up.

I had mounted a new-to-me Simmons 44Mag mil-dot reticle scope on the .22-250 the night before. At 500 yards I took a couple shots to figure out where it was shooting, then proceeded to blast a pigeon. I though the first dot below center was pretty much on, but my partner figured out he only needed to cover half the pigeon with the dot. Didn’t take him long, got the pigeon on the second shot. Then we broke out the .257 Roberts. Again it only took a couple ranging shots on my part, after which we were both able to plaster a pigeon with a couple more shots.

Then it was back to the 600-yard line. One ranging shot, then one shot apiece. It turns out the points of impact were within 2” of each other, about 3” out at the 10:30 position.

My hunting rifles are tools and I strive for accurate loads. From my load notes:

.22-250 = 0.5”, 4 shots, 200 yards
.257 Roberts = 0.95”, 3 shots, 200 yards
7mm Rem Mag = 0.266”, 3 shots, 100 yards
.30-30 = 1.0”, 5 shots. 100 yards
.308 Win = .035”, 3 shots, 100 yards
.300 Win Mag = 0.85”, 4 shots, 100 yards
.45-70 = 1.2”, 4 shots, 100 yards

That kind of accuracy isn't needed, but it doesn't hurt, either.

i have heard good and bad about the 165's for elk. I think alot of hunters " no one in particular" blame alot of game loss, due to bad shot placement, on the bullets. I have shot tons of deer with these rifles and even my 22 magnum ( depredation permit) and have never lost an animal. Knock on wood. I am not doubting as to whether or not a heavier bullet is better, no doubt they are because they are heavier, but my point is, shot placement is the key 99 percent of the time. I have never shot at running animals either. i figure if i cant make the shot i want, then there's always tomorrow or next season. I love to hunt but figure i owe to the animal to make a clean kill. On a second note, i killed a 5 x 6 year before last using 180 grain winchester ammo. the animal was only 100 yds across from me in the open, no trees, brush , nothing. I hit that animal with a perfect shot, left a massive hole entrance and exit, blood looked like it was poored out of a 5 gallon bucket, that animal still ran over 150 yds uphill. I shot him with a 300 win mag at that with that 180 grain bullet. maybe i should have used 220? lol Anyway, i am not bashing or saying i dont take anyones advice, its just i have seen just as bad things happen with 180's as some people claim 165 or lighter cause. If i get one this year with the 165 game kings, i am going to take photos of entrance and exits and post them to let everyone know my experience. I am using them in my 30/06 btw around 2700 fps. If they fail, and its not my fault by placement, i will definately own up to it and let everyone know i was wrong. anywho, its 12 days and a wakeup to opening morning. May the hunting gods be on my side and at least give me oppurtunity. If not, i will enjoy all of God's country and enjoy my dad's 1st elk hunt with him. He's getting older and had a few heart attacks and heart surgery, so God has given me the oppurtunity to take him on his first elk hunt and enjoy 1 more season of hunting with my DAD. Funny how you look back at all the years you took for granted hunting with your dad or loved ones and then time creeps up and they are older or declineing health wise or already passed and you wish you would have done more. People , i urge you, if you have the least bit of oppurtunity take it. You'll be sorry you didnt one day, although you will still have memories of past hunts with your loved ones. How did i get off the subject that bad. Wow.