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Is this "cheap" gas?
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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

This morning at Sams Club I paid "only" $2.28 a gal. for 87 octane. About 3 weeks ago it was 2.75. Never thought I would consider this a good price.

If ever an oil exec. needs their swim pool or spa serviced they better not complain about $65-$85 an hour plus parts!
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

Arizona Hunter,

Prices here have gone down quite abit to 2.72$ US per Gallon here, compared to 3.40$ US/Gal Shocked

Guess the oil companies realized that was the price ceiling and had to drop the price. As they were losing too much money. Laughing

Dimitri

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guncollector
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

I sell automation to the refining industry for a living so I make it my business to understand theirs. The truth is that gas prices have come down because crude oil prices have come down. Crude prices are down because inventories of crude and refined products (gas) are up - supply and demand. Inventories are up because there were no hurricanes this year to cause supply interruptions and there have been no new problems with the Middle East plus consumption has only risen about 1% this year instead of the usual 2.5%.

Are oil companies making money - sure but only about 8-10% return on investment which is much less than most businesses. Some do a little better than that but it is still well below the average business. They make a lot of money per employee but not much per dollar invested.

The only people really get rich off of high gas prices are the producing countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria and good old Venezuela. The people that own the mineral rights in the US and Canada are doing allright as individuals but that tends to be spread around quite a bit.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

Guncollector,

You are right they dont make much compared to how much money they deal with.



This chart is neat sort of. Unless your a student or a young family Shocked



People talk about price caps for Crude Oil Products how about a good cap on childcare and tutition so we dont make it impossible to get higher education and child care for future generations ?? Cool

Dimitri

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

Still over $2.85 here. State Governor launched an investigation into it and found refinery is selling fuel for $2.06 yet stores are marking it up ... way way up!

Totally screwing drivers!



-DallanC
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

Price caps don't work; we tried that in the early '70s and it was a mess. I would rather use technology to put the gas and oil industries out of business.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Price caps don't work; we tried that in the early '70s and it was a mess. I would rather use technology to put the gas and oil industries out of business.

I totally agree........ it is time to put the oil companies out of business. They have had their way with us for too long.

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guncollector
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

The "use technology" solution is great if you keep it in perspective. Nothing short of magic will make a dent in the use of fossil fuels in our life times. If we work real hard at it, our grandkids might be able to rely more on nuclear energy than fossil fuel but that has its own challenges.

The other things like solar panels and wind mills are ridiculous. You could put a solar panel on every square inch of the US and a wind mill on every lot in Canada and you would still not have enough electricity to run Mexico - and they don't use near as much per person as US citizens.

Nuclear power is the only long term solution but I doubt it will cost any less to drive a mile in that electric car than my pickup takes today.

Liked your charts, Dimitri.

Dallan - to your $2.06 refinery gate price, add ~$0.40 in tax and $.20 in transportation cost to get it to the station. If they sell if for $2.92, that is only a 10% margin. The real money makers in those gas stations are the candy bars and soft drinks with the 70% markup.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

Nuclear power is that answer, I've been saying that for years, did many projects in school about it and I'm still told "Solar/Hydroelectric/Wind" is the answer when I proved in my projects it isnt. Sad

Hydro is effective in Canada and the US because we have enough rivers to dam up, but the other 2 are impractical as you mentioned and cost WAY too much. Smile

The thing is Solar and Wind depend on consitancy from Mother Nature. And I think thats hoping for too much. Laughing

On a Interesting note the power used per person in 2001 from various countries of interest to the members here in Kilograms of oil equivalent (kgoe) per person per year
( from earthtrends.wri.org/te...e-351.html ):

Australia -> 5,974.9
Canada -> 7,999.5
Denmark -> 3,706.1
United Kingdom -> 3,993.8
United States -> 7,920.9

Canada is highest from the countrys I can remember members on the board come from on the top of my head Smile

The biggest ones (that are more then Canada) are:

Qatar -> 26,888.3
Iceland -> 11,800.0
United Arab Emerates -> 11,331.7
Bahrain -> 9,323.2
Lexumberg -> 8,693.9

Shocked

Dimitri

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

Gas is about $2.39 a gallon around here for 87 octane. I would dispute the statement that oil companies make very little profit. The numbers for Exxon/Mobil in the 4th quarter 2005 was $10 billion and a new world record. Then the CEO of Exxon/Mobil retired and got $400 million as a golden parachute. Guess who will have to pay the $400 million. All the best...
Gil

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

There is a lot of oil in my area and when the price per barrel is up, the oil companies around here spend money like there is no tommorrow, no matter what the cost, (waste a lot) and when the price per barrel goes down they don't spend a dime. They know they have us by the short curlys and I wish we could find a cheap alternative and soon and shut these greedy sob's down for good.

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

I would rather pay the prevailing rate for gasoline and have it available than have capped prices or government regulated prices and no availability. Our gas prices in the US are a bargain and current prices, adjust for inflation, are not disproportionate. This even more remarkable given the increased demand for oil from China and India.

I'm glad oil companies are profitable; that means more money for exploration and development of oil resources. I'm also glad I own shares in a very profitable oil company.

The biggest profiteers are those MidEastern countries than use the petro dollar to fund international terrorism. Independence from Saudi Arabian oil should be a top priority for the US. Develop Mexican and ANWAR oil supplies, expand Canadian oil extraction.

Our basic understanding that crude is finite may be mistaken as increasing studies show a steady replenishment rate in numerous areas. More research may give us insights into this process. In the interim, I say:

GO EXXON GO
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

I never belived the whole "dinisours died and made fossil feuls" myself Smile

Metal Carbides might be a answer since putting water on them forms hydrocarbon compounds. Now after forming they in the depths of the Earth's crust can have a variaty of chemical changes that will produce everything we know and use thats in crude oil Very Happy

If your wondering how old it is its almost as old as the periotic table as the guy that created the periotic table first came up with the bases of this idea. Smile

Quote::
The famous Russian chemist Dimitri Mendeleev, whose pioneering work led to the creation of the periodic table, was the first to propose what has been named the "Carbide hypothesis" to explain the origins of petroleum. Mendeleev's science makes a lot of sense, as far as it goes. His assumption is that deep within the Earth there are compounds called metal carbides, which react with water in the form of hydrothermal solutions.

And you know he was right metal carbides do form hydrocarbons Smile

Dimitri

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

You have to start thinking about non-combustion ways to get the job done.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this "cheap" gas? Reply with quote

PaulS,

Tell me something who will front the bill to replace all transport trucks, SUV's, cars, buses, planes and the like ?? Confused

That is the main problem with other energy sources it would cost so much to convert no matter how good it is you wont get it off the ground much. Smile

Personally I think all new cars and light trucks should be electric, with batteries that would last a good 24 hours of driving before needing to recharge. Only way to get our dependance of oil out is to force it on people sadly enough. Sad

And then we must built tons of nuclear power plants to supply these new cars with power. And get rid of coal and gas power plants at the same time. Smile

What you think ?? Confused

Dimitri

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