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30/30 Winchester question
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Grant
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Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

I just picked up a model 94 as a camp gun and a cheep fun shooter. I'm looking at the reloading info in the Lyman book and the Lee book and I'm getting some conflicting info.

Lyman says:
150 grain jacketed
IMR4064 starting load 29 gr 2168 fps 27000 cup
max load 32 gr 2313 fps 39,400 cup

Lee says:
150 grain Jacketed
IMR4064 starting load 33.8 gr no speed or cup
max load 37.5 gr 2350 fps 37800 cup

Now, common sense tells me to error on the side of caution and go with the Lyman info, but I thought maybe someone else might be able to shed some light on this.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

Testing methods vary as well as firearms being used. Yours is but one example of many that illustrate the need to expand the number of loading manuals you have. In fact, a good case can be made to acquire all the manuals available and compare data before loading. Your conclusion to be conservative in the starting loads has merit.
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Grant
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

It's true about the differences between reloading manuals, but this one really stands out. One book saying it's ok to start with a load that is substantially higher than another says is max. Probably not a big deal with a 30/30, but could be scary if you were loading for a 375 H&H with a discrepancy that large.
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skb2706
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

I wouldn't consider anything from a Lee loading manual as valid information. His data is concucted using his 'theories' and speculation as opposed to measuring equipment and fact. Reference other loading manuals, any free info. from the net, lean to the conservative side and use the Lee loading manual for a leg prop on a crooked tripod.
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shootist
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

Hi Grant....usually the differences in manuals occur when an older cartridge,such as the .30/30 is compared. Some manuals carry data based on which GUN the cartridge is used. For example, the .30/30 can be used in an original black powder cartridge based rifle, a handgun, or a modern rifle with strong bolt action. In addition, some manuals carry back the copper crusher method of measuring pressure....some use piezo sensor data. Basically, you have to know the strength of your weapon, then load accordingly.
These are the reasons why we have a reference library of manuals that span the age of our pieces...10/4?


Regards,
SHOOTIST
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Grant
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

Thanx for all the info!!

I'm starting to also think that the Lee book isn't one to follow. I've used the Lyman book for the most part till now and it's always been a good bench mark to start with, I guess I will continue with it.

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If guns kill people, does that mean I can blame misspelled words on my pencil?
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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

Gidday Grant, congratulations on acquiring the most popular rifle ever made....well in my mind anyway. Very Happy I love mine.

On a more serious note....Is your Mod 94 new or, if not, do you know its vintage?

If its an older model you would be well served to have it checked by a gunsmith for serviceability and capacity to withstand handloads. Apologies for probably stating the obvious, or "teaching you to suck eggs", but better safe than sorry.

I reload for my 30.30 using an Australian powder, AR2208, marketed by Hogdon in your part of the world as Varget. I find that its a good powder for the 30.30 and using 150 grain Winchester PPFN bullets is very pleasant to shoot. Starting load for the 150 grain bullet is 31 grains and max load is 34.5 grains.

The other option is the perenial favourite for the 30.30 WW748. Load data is: 150 gr SP, 34.5grains, 2310fps, 36,000 CUP. Website link below.

Winchester Powder Reloading Data

Don't expect benchrest type accuracy, but you should get groups that measure "Minute of Deer" at 100m with ease. Very Happy Very Happy

Good luck Grant, I think you will find a lot of enjoyment from your Model 94.

Cheers, Vince

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Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Grant
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Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

Thanx for all the info Vince.

I did a serial number search on my rifle and it was built between 1943 and 1948. It's one that calls it a "30 WCF". My buddy, who I got the rifle from, happens to be a gunsmith, handy eh? He checked it over and replaced a few parts in the action so it's good to go. I think I'm going to start with the calibers name as it's first load..... 30 Caliber bullet, 30 grains of powder. With a 150 grain bullet it should go out at 2140 fps and 34500 cup. Should be a good load, easy on the gun and still knock down a deer out to 100 yrads with no problem. Now I just gotta buy a horse and a big hat and I'm set...... Very Happy

I've always wanted a model 94 so I'm sure I'm going to enjoy it just fine. I'll let ya know how it shoots.

Thanx,

Grant
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kbis
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Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

The IMR web site list a max. load for IMR4064 of 33.7 grains with a 150 grain bullet.

You might want to check out imrpowder.com at least it is free.

BTW, welcome to the forum.
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Grant
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Posts: 319
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 30/30 Winchester question Reply with quote

Thanx kbis,

I never thought to look at IMR's site, good resource.

Thanx for the welcome.

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If God wanted us to be vegetarians, he would have made broccoli more fun to shoot!

If guns kill people, does that mean I can blame misspelled words on my pencil?
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