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Neck sizing question
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

yottee wrote:
except for my ar all i do is neck size. i use the lee collett in 223 and 22-250 one thing that i have found,i hit low about 2 inches after i full lengh size, once the cases are fire formed again, impact goes back to where i originaly had it.i dont know if this has happend with other loaders or not,but good to know before taking a 300yd shot at a coyote

squirrelbait wrote:
Yottee, I get the same thing with new brass before I "fireform" them to my chamber. Must be internal volumn etc...? Just did a small bunch of 243s that were all low and not grouping very well.

Hm, this is an interesting thought. It might just account for some erratic groups.......I know I can't be to blame Shocked .

Seriously though, it is something that I will now take into account when doing load development/testing.

Thanks for the info guys.

Cheers, Vince

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sniper
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

I have never been an advocate of neck sizing, believing that a die set to size for minimum headspace and 100 % reliable function in my rifles is all that is required for my personal uses, and will give all the accuracy that I need.

But, one trick I have heard mentioned is to use the adjustment washer from your 38 Special/357 Magnum die set between the size die lock ring and press, which will size about 1/2 of the neck. Then, when it gets hard to chamber, FLS, and start the process again.

That's if you have a 357 Maggie die set.

If you can find a machined washer with a large enough center hole at a hardware store, it seems like that would do just as well, if the thickness is sufficient. Something else to play with...uhhhh... experiment, EXPERIMENT! That's what I meant to say. Really, I did! Very Happy

Back in the Dark Ages, when I started reloading, I used my fingers to lube cases for resizing, but RCBS used to sell a case lube pad, and some reloaders used large uninked stamp pads, which they loaded with lubricant, and rolled the cases across to lube them. In theory, the lube only got on the body of the brass, and not the shoulder or neck, which could cause wrinkled case shoulders/necks. Don't ask how I know this! Embarassed Good luck with your collet die.

If you have caliber that they sell a die for, RCBS has or had what they called an X die, which was supposed to size properly, and eliminate most, if not all trimming of cases.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

sniper wrote:
Back in the Dark Ages, when I started reloading, I used my fingers to lube cases for resizing, but RCBS used to sell a case lube pad, and some reloaders used large uninked stamp pads, which they loaded with lubricant, and rolled the cases across to lube them. In theory, the lube only got on the body of the brass, and not the shoulder or neck, which could cause wrinkled case shoulders/necks. Don't ask how I know this! Embarassed Good luck with your collet die.

If you have caliber that they sell a die for, RCBS has or had what they called an X die, which was supposed to size properly, and eliminate most, if not all trimming of cases.

Gidday Sniper, how are you traveling mate? You may well have just provided an answer to a most perplexing problem that I am suffering. I use a stamp pad to lube and I have noted that I often get wrinkled shoulders when sizing my 30.30 cases. I thought that my dies weren't adjusted correctly or that the cases needed trimming before sizing when all the time it may well be me not lubing totally. Embarassed

I am in the process of designing a lube "post" for lubing the inside of the case necks for sizing......maybe I can incorporated an additional "bit" to lube the outside of the neck/shoulder area.

Hm, time to oil up the grey matter and get it working again methinks. Laughing

Cheers, Vince

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

I've got a idea about neck sizing the brass.

What about making a little block with a pad in a hole to lube the outside of the brass case and a pad in the center on a small wooden pin to hold a inner pad to lube the inside of the case, and the pads would be made of cut out pad from a ink or lube pad ?? Confused (The outter pad to put lube on the outside needs to flex so it fits snug right down to the neck and sholders of the case though)

One problem with my idea is you'd need a different sized one for each caliber family. Which isnt too bad as most things arnt "universal" even if they say they are Smile

Dimitri



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sniper
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Yo, Vince;
Doing well, mate! Retirement is all they say, and more.
Wrinkled shoulder/neck areas are almost always caused by too much lube on the neck/shoulder, but it never hurts to check. Overlength cases can cause a bulge just below the area where the shoulder widens out to full case body diameter.
Lubing the inside of the necks was accomplished by scraping lubed fingers across the case mouths...about every 5th one or so, If I recall correctly. Worked fine. Now, I use the Hornady spray lube, which does away with wrinkly shoulders and lubing the inside of the cases.

Be well.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Dimitri.....that is much too "techo" for my feeble old brain to work out mate.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

What I had in mind is a simple base with an old jag affixed in the middle of it. Either wrap a bit of cleaning flannel around it push or a piece of HD foam soaked in lube onto it. For lubing the neck/shoulder area another post, a nail or screw perhaps, positioned beside the jag at a suitable distance with the same material on it. Pop the case neck over the jag and twist.....lubes the inside of the neck and the other "mop" will rub on the outside lubing the outside.

Cheap and nasty but a similar system worked effectively for lubing the cam on car distributor shafts for many years.

Sniper mate....you ain't wrong about retirement. I find it a mix of frustration and relaxation and boredom. I go through phases of looking for something to do...end up polishing cases by hand to kill time.

When I first started reloading I used to do 200 .357 MAG rounds at a time.... on a single stage press Shocked ......and also used the old "fingers in the lube" method. Still give the case necks a scrape over the finger tips every so often to lube inside..works effectively too.

Cheers, Vince

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Vince,

Never thought of that. Smile

What about removing all the fancy "devices" and just dipping the case in a small cup (like the ones that come with medicen for little kids) up to the sholder ?? Confused

Dimitri

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

"Dipping" would put far too much lube on the case. I use Pacific Case Lube and it is the consistency of honey.

Maybe the best way to go is as Sniper said....Hornady spray lube.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Thanks for that quick reply Vince, Smile I never tried it myself or used reloading case lube, thought it would be more "watery" then that Smile

Dimitri

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sniper
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Vince wrote:

Sniper mate....you ain't wrong about retirement. I find it a mix of frustration and relaxation and boredom. I go through phases of looking for something to do...end up polishing cases by hand to kill time......Cheers, Vince

OOohhh, that's BAAADDDD! Shocked

****
...When I first started reloading I used to do 200 .357 MAG rounds at a time.... on a single stage press ......and also used the old "fingers in the lube" method. Still give the case necks a scrape over the finger tips every so often to lube inside..works effectively too... Vince

Very Happy

WELL! back in the day, I couldn't afford even a single stage press, but I loaded a bunch with my brother-in-law's Lee Basic reloader--the one you had to hammer on. I got my RCBS Jr. press, and thought I had died and gone to heaven! THEN came the carbide dies. Oh Boy!

Darn, NOW I sound like Bushy! Viking Where is he lately? Hiding
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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Haha Haha Haha

I think we all sound like Bushy....and probably with good reason.

I have been trying to find out how to contact Bushy....even if it means a phone call from way down her Down Under.

One of the guys said he thought that the internet may not be out where Bushy now lives. We have areas in Australia the same. They have to rely on satellite phones and radios for outside contact. Scary in this day and age.

My first press was a Simplex "O" Frame master...basically a copy of the RCBS Rock Chucker. The dies were also Simplex, but not carbide. Then I bought a Lee 1000 with carbide dies...AWESOME.

Now I am back to my O Frame press again with no carbide cause I only load bottle neck cases... Sad

All the guidance on whether to FLS or just NS and the best adjustments that have come out here have been invaluable to me that's for sure. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Vince,

There is land phone service and probably atleast 56K internet in pretty much any place of North America you go to unless you go deep into the bush Smile

I have faith that Bushmaster will get on in good time Smile

Dimitri

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

I have always used a caliber sized wire brush rolled on the lube pad to lube and clean the inside of the case necks - in one step. If you wanted to go fast you could use a cordless screwdriver or a drill to spin the brush with a few drops of lube on the cetral shaft and let it run down the length of the brush. a drop or two at the end of each session would keep it lubed for the next session at the bench. I use just a small handle that is drilled and tapped to accept a bore brust and push, twist and pull it out. It does the job well and the lube is removed in the tumbling of the case after sizing (neck only), decapping and trimming.

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mc223
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

Imperial Sizing Die Wax is perfect for neck sizing.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Neck sizing question Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
I have always used a caliber sized wire brush rolled on the lube pad to lube and clean the inside of the case necks - in one step. If you wanted to go fast you could use a cordless screwdriver or a drill to spin the brush with a few drops of lube on the cetral shaft and let it run down the length of the brush. a drop or two at the end of each session would keep it lubed for the next session at the bench. I use just a small handle that is drilled and tapped to accept a bore brust and push, twist and pull it out. It does the job well and the lube is removed in the tumbling of the case after sizing (neck only), decapping and trimming.

That a pretty good idea Paul, however, my only concern would be the burnt powder/carbon from the inside of the neck when mixed with a little lube could form a quite abrasive paste. Have you had a problem with this? I would imagine that it has the potential to wear or scratch the neck sizing button. Just a thought.

Cheers, Vince

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