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Good & bad load experience today
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

The bad: In my .204 Ruger, Howa 1500. I was shooting 40 gr. V-Maxs loaded with BLC2 at 29.0 & 29.5 gr. and all the primers are punctured. At 28.0 & 28.5 gr. all primers are fine.


The good: W748 with 27.5 gr & the 40 V-max, shot a 1/2" group (only had 3 cartridges made up). FPS should be around 3640 (next time will get chronoed). Maybe I will just use this as a coyote & prarie dog load or maybe try some some at 27.6, 27.7 (28.3 is listed a s max).

Anybody else use W748 in a .204?
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mc223
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

What primers are you using? I do not load for 204, however in 223 loadings for the heavy bullets I have had pierced primers. The powder is not the issue. It is the primer cup thickness. I have seen this in CCI BR4 , #41 and WSR. I switched to Rem 7-1/2 and Fed 205 and have not had a pierced primer. There is a thread on this site in Reloading called Primer cup Dimensions, that gives primer cup thickness of the major primer mfgs.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

I have experienced no pierced primers with WSR or CCI BR primers in 204 or 223, maybe you got a bad batch of primers?

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

Thanks guys,

The primers are CCI 400 small rifle. My friend had the same thing happen when he got up to 29.0 gr. of the same powder. Last week I had also shot BLC2 at 28, 28.5, 29, 29.5 gr. and all those at 28, /28.5 are fine but all those at 29.0 + are pierced. He says its because to much pressure was created; that the these loads in our rifles (not everyones) are too hot. If true thats fine, as they only grouped about 1.25".


Crackshot, do you have any accurate .204 loads for 40 grain bullets you might suggest (I'm using Hornady V-Max)?
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mc223
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

My loads were similarly warm in the 223. I don't think it was bad primers when it happened with different primers and the same powder charge, and stopped when I started using a primer with a thicker cup.

www.huntingnut.com/ind...pic&t=1746

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

Hi MC223,
What primers are you using? Fed, Win, Rem?
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mc223
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

I have the best results and the most consistent SD with Rem 7-1/2 under Varget. These Varget loadings avg 11 SD.
For all other powders I use Fed 205. I'm seeing SDs under 16 with the Feds. I also see a lot of very flat primers, but have not peirced or blown any yet.
I have had very good loadings with the CCIs, But loaded at much lower charges, with faster powders and lighter bullets.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

It sounds to me like you are stepping back and forth across that line where pressures are going up very fast with small increases in charge. Flat primers followed by pierced primers is a natural progression of pressure indication. You can hide the symptoms by going to a thicker cup but the pressure is still the same. If it was me doing the shooting and it was my gun I would back the load down a grain and a half below where the symptoms did not exist and call that the maximum load with that powder/ bullet combination in that rifle. You do what you think is right.

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

I will try some more at 28.5 gr, as there were no negative signs at that level and see how they group next week.

Thanks for the comments guys.
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mc223
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

The "natural progression" was not flat primers then pierced. It was perfectly normal appearing pierced primers. There was no hiding of a problem, it was fixed.
Sometimes when attempting to get the best long range loading, the envelope must be opened. Flat primers in a well balanced load that achieves the desired downrange performance may not be an indication of high pressure. Once the envelope has been opened the information inside must be read and used accordingly. Those who stop load development because the book says so, may not be taking full advantage of the load potential. I am not condoning loading to excess, but I do not have the test barrel that was used for the book loading. The use of chronographs and comparison factory loadings assures me of the best possible performance of my handloads.

Now back to the topic.
Slower powders that more completely fill the case is another alternative. I doubt there is a huge amount of load data for the 204. Good luck.

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

Can primers be seated too hard or too deep? I use the RCBS hand tool and sometimes it seems like I squeeze that thing all the way closed but usually I can "feel" when it is right, but like I said sometimes I get carried away and squeeze it all the way down.
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mc223
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

To double check yourself measure the seating depth from the case head. .005 to .008 down is what would be normal. As far as to hard, well I guess it would go pop if too hard. The cup of a primer is not totaly flat to start with. I try to seat primers with just enough to feel them stop, then look to be sure they look almost like they did before. I just read some where that some people believe that seating primers hard decreases the firing pin force needed to fire. I have'nt formed an opinion on that one yet.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

Side note...bought a pound of RL 15-my rifle likes it! The best 3 shot group was .20 and the worst group last weekend with 40 gr. V-Max's was 3/4". Powder charges were 26.3, 26.5, 26.8, 27.0 and 27.2.
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mc223
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

Since you have found that your 204 seems to like the RL-15, you might try some V-V N-140 or N540. these tend to soften the push while giving good usefull velocitys. And good accuracy. I have used the same data for all 3 of these powders. Of course Reduce and work up with each.

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Good & bad load experience today Reply with quote

Thanks MC. My buddy has some 140 (not sure about the other), so in the next few weeks I will try some reduced loads.

This Sat. I'm going to try the 40 V-Max's with the same loads as last week, but with a Sims De-resonator for bull barrels. Also will try some 32 V-Max's. And, finally have a buddy coming along with a chrono. so I can see if my loads a more like Hornady's with RL 15 or like Sierra's (which were about 150-200 fps slower).
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