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Reintroduction of Wolves
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calsibley
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

We have areas in the northern parts of our provinces where wolves can prosper, and yet do not come into contact with farmers stock. I can accept this so long as none of our wild animals are endangered by the introduction of wolves. I've seen wolf packs in action in Northern Ontario, and they are indeed awesome. A pack of 6 to 8 wolves on the prowl is relentless. There's nothing else in the wild that can hold their own against them. If we can't find a solution then it may just be necessary to restrict them to zoos. I don't like that at all, but know of no other solution. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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calsibley
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

We have quite a few wolves in northern Ontario. They're native to the area, not introduced. I saw a pack of 7 early one morning while sitting on a cliff awaiting the appearance of a moose. That year we didn't see a moose the entire week. They really clear out when wolves are in the area.
It's an ideal spot for wolves, not a house or road for about 75 miles. There is an Indian reservation about 50 miles away, but the Indians don't pay them much mind. You can hunt wolves up there, but it's quite expensive. The lack of roads means you have to fly in, and that isn't cheap. They're pretty big boys, appear to weigh about 90lbs or so. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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calsibley
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

I'm only familiar with Ontario, which is about the size of California and Texas combined. The northern part of the Province is mainly empty except for the odd Indian reservation. We have a lot of moose there and a lot of wolves as well. Wolves don't go on killing rampages and the moose are holding their own. It's a rather delicate balance between the wolves and moose. I've been following the US efforts to reintroduce wolves out west. It doesn't seem too popular with animal herders or with elk hunters. I wonder if the heart of the problem isn't that the area is slowly becoming more settled. It's hard for wolves to have enough open space that might prevent them from running afoul of human activities. Maybe for the time being the reintroductions should be confined to Alaska.
It might be best for the wolves as well as the people and other animals they encounter. We have a knack of screwing up the balance of nature when we interfere. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

My opinion is this............ we do not need wolves in any area to control big game populations, just more available tags for hunters. As far as I'm concerned wolves are not a good thing in most areas just like cougars and there is no need to introduce them to any place they are not already at or places they were wiped out of......... They don't belong anymore in some places. Just like we couldn't very well have a few million free roaming buffalo these days. Times change.

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mikekuzara
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Being from a state where the reintroduction has already happened let me fill you in on a few not reported details.
I worked in Yellowstone Park during the reintroduction. Remember how they were feeding the penned wolves "roadkill"? Apperently the definition of roadkill was to put 4 rangers in the back of a snow cat and drive the service roads untill they found a deer, elk, or bison close enough for the winch cable to reach. Then they shot it, winched up to the snow cat and took it to the wolf pens.
The game and fish biologists in the Dubois area are reporting an 80% elk calf mortality rate this year, mostly from wolves.
If this is such a great idea, then why isn't any body busy reintroducing the grizzly bear to California? It is on the state flag, and was once native to the region.
The answer is simple, most greenies wnat their wildlife where they can go and look at safely, preferably in someone elses backyard.
Around here, the unofficial wolf management plan is the "3 S" plan.
Shoot
Shovel
Shutup

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calsibley
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

I have no qialms about the re-introduction of wolves "if" you have the space for them. We've done it rather successfully in Ontatio, but remember Ontario is about the size of Texas and California combined. These pack animals like wolves travel in packs and do not stay put. In time you will have problems. There's too many populated areas for them to encroach upon. We've got nut cases in British Columbia. near Vancouver that even purposely leave food out for them. They are not such an attraction when they grab a small child or even little Fifi the dog. Every time we fool with nature it seems we screw it up. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
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ghall
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

I agree with MikeKuzara and the 3 s saying. Here in Idaho the elk wintering ranges look like a blood bath. Dead elk everywhere from the damn wolves. Fish and game reported 4 years ago that there were only 9 elk killed by wolves. When I worked for the Sheriff's department there was a totally different story that they didn't let out. It was 48 elk kills. That was just one wintering area. The wolves have pushed most of the elk out of one unit. Yeah it makes better hunting in the other unit's the elk retreated to. But you know the wolves will follow.

I heard from the State trapper that they successfully trapped two wolves in South Central Idaho. They then transported the wolves 60 miles north and released them with radio collars on them. 30 hours later they were back in the same area that they had trapped them in originally. No doubt that they can cover a lot of land quick.

From my personal experience with wolves, and the elk I love, I would gut shoot one anyday. They are ruining the big game hunting around here. They don't just kill for food, they kill for fun, and they are too damn good at it.

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glockman55
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

I have seen two wolves in Upper Michigan since they have reintroduced them, what about 10 years ago or so, I'm not sure if it was a good idea or not. The locals don't think so, and I have noticed the Deer heard seems to be way down. I know the hard winters have alot to do with the heard, but it usualy bounces back.We have been going to the UP for over 16 years, and always bring deer back.
The last 5 years hasn't been very good. I think this year the Bridge count was 30% less than last year. I hope they control the size of the Wolf Pack in Michigan. It sounds like it is getting very large.More people are seeing these animals more often.
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mikekuzara
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Talk to the game and fish wardens around Dubois, Wyoming. Lat winter wolves hamstrung and killed over 80 elk in a small area, didn't eat any of them. Just ran them down for the fun of it.
My grandmother was around when wolves still roamed wild and can recall losing over 20 cattle in a single night. Same thing, the wolves ran them down and killed or hamstrung them, did not eat a one.
What really gets her goat is that the same year that the feds spent 14 million dollars for the wolf reintroduction(an animal at that time that numbered over 70,000 of in North America), they quietly pulled all of the $250,000 a year they were spending for Black Footed Ferret ( an animal that numbered slightly over a hundred at the time)recovery. Wyoming picked up the tab for the ferrets.

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Shomebigbores
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Fencing Fighting Sad
Wolves are beautiful animals, but they will not be considered such by ranchers once they destroy the deer, elk, and moose poplulations where they are placed.

I do not understand why we don't allow more human hunting on deer and other game animals when we get an overpopulation. That was supposed to be the intention when these programs started.

We will need to hunt these animals eventually.

Just a poor boy's opine.

Walt Very Happy

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WileyWapiti
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Hey Mikekuzura...I have heard that the Yellowstone packs have grown large enough to push the grizz on wider ranges - are they getting into the Bighorn Mountains or causing you guys any problems near Buffalo?. I have also read about tagged Yellowstone wolves making it over to mid Oregon. I know the packs have exploded beyond their intended sizes etc. If they start getting over into New Castle and Wright, I imagine the sheep ranchers will put the 3S into play. I like wolf....barbecued, stewed, broiled..........

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

WileyWapiti wrote:
Hey Mikekuzura...I have heard that the Yellowstone packs have grown large enough to push the grizz on wider ranges - are they getting into the Bighorn Mountains or causing you guys any problems near Buffalo?. I have also read about tagged Yellowstone wolves making it over to mid Oregon. I know the packs have exploded beyond their intended sizes etc. If they start getting over into New Castle and Wright, I imagine the sheep ranchers will put the 3S into play. I like wolf....barbecued, stewed, broiled..........

I would bet that the ranchers out that way like wolf any old way as long as it's dead........... Very Happy

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Last edited by 1895ss on Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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moose2
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Idaho has indeed been successful in there wolf reintroduction. This is one of the downsides of living in areas that have alot of public lands for the U.S. Fish and wildlife Service to take control over, as they are lead agency for most reintroduction projects which Idaho has had more than its share of. If it is good or bad is never easy to predict from the onset. In this case success may lead to the wolf's downfall again. I would imagine this is why the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has turned the Wolf Management back over to the Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game. Idaho Fish and Game is under alot of pressure to control the expanding population and I'm sure they will. I would like to say though that blood baths on Elk and deer were fairly common in Idaho even before the reintroduction of the wolf. I witnessed many times along the Upper St. Joe river the blood baths in late March caused by the big cats and coyotes as the weakened elk pushed down towards the river to find forage. Not a pretty sight but a common site. Also in the Purcels in north Idaho, lots spring kills by the big cats on deer and elk, and later after calving alot of calf kills by bears. Where there's alot of game, there's always something there to feed on it. The upper St. Joe did still have a few wolfs in the early 70's. Was pretty cool to hear them. In a way its kinda sad that the plight of the wolf again does not look very good for the future as they are a magnificent animal. Just my thoughts--tr

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fishingdude7
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Hey, I'm new to the forum here but seems like a cool place. Figure I'll put my 2 cents on with this topic because I do know quite a bit about it. Right now i'm going to colorado state and one of my professors i'm taking a class with right now accually was on the 14 man team that started to introduce the wolves and they are constantly trying to manage them. From what ive learned, there are definitly pro's and cons to the situation and me being from a farming family really hated the idea at first, however, with programs like the defenders of wildlife who can help substitute farmers for lost livestock it does help some (though it is hard to fully substitute since only 1 in 5 livestock kills are accually found).

However, I also had to do a research project on the wolf reintroduction to yellowstone and since I was given the task to research the Pro side I found some interesting info. The elk herds in yellowstone were really overpopulated and while this is a hunters paradise it does hurt them in a way in that too many elk destroy the landscape they are living in. Now dont catch me for a tree hugger or something, but a bad system they are living in can produce more elk but they wont be as healthy. So, with introducing the wolves they cause the elk to act more like game (instinct of being hunted) and thus they are not free to roam wherever they want destroying things like stream sites where I like to fish.

Overall though, I feel that introducing the wolves is ok also because right now in many states they are classified as endangered, if they are introduced and can be taken of the list then if you accidentally shoot one you wont lost your house and live in jail. SO in that aspect I think introducing wolves to the area surrounding yellowstone in their natural habitat areas is a good thing, also as long as programs like the defenders of wildlife continue to supplement farmers and ranchers for lost livestock. Thats my 2 cents, and its probably a lot of rambling.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Reintroduction of Wolves Reply with quote

Wolves for the most part here are unregulated and you can hunt them without limits if I remember correctly its been a few months since I last checked, there are seasons though but thouse are pretty large seasons. Smile

Most people dont bother them as coyotes here are the real problem when it comes to killing lifestock and animals. Smile Plus myself I dont know a single hunter that was attacked by a wolf. I got to wonder what some people did to make wolves attack them. Shocked

We saw this HUGE wolf looked like the size of a deer out at 200 to 400 yards (it was walking away while we were at the cabin from left to right moving farther away was it walked). wtf Too bad it was archery season for deer and no one had a rifle Very Happy So we could have took some pictures as the ones I took with my digital camara wernt good as it was too far and sunny that day Sad

I say give the wolves alittle time to settle in and you wont be exepriancing much problems. Just need to get rid of thouse blood thrusty wolves that kill for no reason though. Shocked

Dimitri

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