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Pet peeves regarding surplus arms
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

Folks,
There are a few things that really drive me up the wall when looking for surplus arms. In no specific order, here at my top five:

1. Misidentified military arms. Most gun shops (unless they have a knowledgeable staff) seem to guess at what military arms they have for sale. Common surplus arms are sometimes listed as "rare" with a prohibitive price listed on the hang tag. On the other hand, I have bought a few really rare pieces that were lumped into the "old army rifle" category and sold cheap.

2. Over stated condition. There is a national surplus dealer that probably lists every arm they dell as "excellent" when in fact they fall into the NRA good, NRA fair or NRA poor classifications.

3. Missing parts. I have seen used rifles without parts of the stock, sight hoods gone and what must have been lost internal parts. That will impact the price because finding parts can be a challenge and expensive.

4. Signs of neglect. A great deal of old military ammo is corrosive and if shot requires a proper and thorough cleaning of the bore. I saw a pristine surplus arm before it was sold and the condition several weeks later after it was traded back at the same shop. A mint bore was reduced to what looked like a coal mine. The new owner shot old military ammo and never cleaned the bore because he did not have a cleaning rod or supplies.

5. Attempts at sporterization. Fortunately this form of gun torture to decent surplus arms seems to be waning. However, there are still many examples on the used gun racks. Properly done, surplus arms can become wonderful sporting arms. In too many cases it seems amateur gunsmiths were busy.

Anyone have any peeves they care to list? All the best...
Gil

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

Gil,

My pet peeve with Surplus arms arnt so much there fault but I'd thought I'd mention it:

The thought that a 300-400$ like new/Exc Mauser is somehow "much worse" and "should be thrown in the garbage" then a commercial mauser clone. wtf I've heard this thinking in person at gunshops as well as online. wtf

It interesting though no matter how much I hear that 2 stage heavy millitary triggers are garbage I still dont feel right pulling the single stage light trigger of a commercial rifle. Cool

Dimitri

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popgun
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

I think I know the dealer you are talking about. Advertises in the Shotgun News, several pages of guns and other surplus stuff, and there is an "&" after the first name and before the second name then Sales. Always have the very best for sale according to their own rating system. That is why every surplus gun we buy should come with a three day inspection.
I sold off most of my surplus guns and the only one left is a Jap w/o the royal seal on the receiver ring. Not worth much.

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mc223
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

No. 5
I just cringe when I see what was once a fine as could be expected for it's original purpose rifle that has been hacked and coated with some space age polymer.

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guncollector
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

I'll add to the list the overdone import marks some importers seem to find necessary to stamp onto an otherwise fine barrel or receiver. They are required to clearly mark the imported arms with their name but they don't have to deface history in the process!
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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

im a long time milsurp owner/fan. my first real gun was a no 5 jungle carbine copy put out by sears in like 1964 when i was 8 years old which ive used to take deer over 40 years.

i have many pet peeves about milsurps.

my main one is when people go to buy a gun they will pass by a mint no 4 longbranch for 200 dollars and buy a 800 win mag overbored to a 1000 supersupersupermag so they can kill deer at 50 yards and pay 1500 dollars for the new gun and 3000 dollars for the scope and then badmouth the old worthless enfield.

i also have a peeve about milsup purests.

you know the ones who own 200 in full metal and wood which they have never ever shot and which they have refinished the woold on and replaced good safe ugly parts for pretty parts and they then have the never to badmouth me for my sport enfield i bought in the sport config and have used 40 years killing dozens of deers with.

sorry if you do anything to a milsurp that doesnt deal with a safety issue then you are as bad a "BUBBA" as some one who cuts down a barrel or stock.

just look at the milsurp sites showing pics of brand new looking enfields when unless you buy a NEW ozzie one you will never see in real life but they brag its "original" after theyve steamed the wood and refinished it.

most people i know who use sport milsurps buy them that way and actually use them to hunt with.

i have

a sport no 4 longbranch

a completewly original no 4 longbranch

a sport no 1

a original model 98 1916 bringbback mauser

a M1917 eddystone with a corrosive damaged barrel in a cut barrel and a custom fagin stock.

i shoot them all every week and only big came hunt with them.

next peeve is someone telling me my sport 303 enfield is not enough gun to kill elk or bear at 300 yards and that i need at least a 30 06 or even better a 300 win mag or larger when the 303 has killed every big game animal on the planet for the last 100 years.

next peeve is someone telling me i shouldnt sport any milsurp no matter the condition and no matter that 12 million of them were made and are sitting in storage someplace going to waste while a sported one would be used every deer season for ever. {hint very very few milsurps have ANY real collector value at all.

ive got lots more peeves but this is enough for now.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

Spacedone,

Where are you finding 200$ mint Longbranchs ?? Shocked

As for the 303British being bad I never understoud that myself. Its balisticlly similar to all the other "full power" rifle ammo of the time inculding the 30-06, 8x57mm Mauser, and the like. Confused

I think "bubba's" got a bad name because there were alot that were butchered by home gunsmiths that knew NOTHING about gunsmithing Sad I've seen online quite a few nicly sportized surplus rifles and I think its better to give it new life then let it sit and be a safe queen that most "Mil-Surplus Purists" would want. Smile

Dimitri

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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

mint for a enfield is not NRA mint

im talking 90 percent finish on the wood and metal with not alot of dings. i just bought one in a pawn shop with 98 percent finish no dings or scratches perfect bore for 194 dollars and talked the guy down to 135 because of no bayonet while showing him prices in shotgun news.

alot of the new imports are in extremely good condition and in the US you can find nonimopt marked enfields in near mint condition.
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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

alot of the butchered ones as you call them were sported in the late 50s to early 60s and were sported by actual hunters instead of gunsmiths so they could be used to actually hunt.

my no 1 i got in 64 was bought at sears in a barrel factory sported was bought for 15 dollars with a box of shells and a simmons scope.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

Spacedone,

I've got no idea how they "rate" rifles properly. Embarassed But this is how at a gunshop I'd rate a rifle:

Mint/Exc for me anyways is if most of the finish is there and it has a good bore. And is safe to shot.

Good is lacking 25% or so of finish but ok bore and can be refinished. It is also safe to shoot.

Fair is lacking most of the finish and has a bad bore. But shootable and can be fixed up.

Poor is rifles that are too far gone.

Anyways in Canada rifle prices for surplus rifles seem higher for the most part.

A SKS costing 150$ in NRA Exc/Like New condition in the US when they were avalible would set you back 300$ plus here in Canada.

Yugo Mausers for a M24 on the web I see them for in Very Good condition for 100-125$ in the US and 300$ here.

Mil-Surplus cost almost as much as a new Savage or Remington here. Shocked

Dimitri

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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

most milsurps are better guns tho than the remingtons or savages {which i love both of}
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

Spacedone,

Yes they are, they were made simple, made to take what ever conscrips would do to them and at the end of the day still work. Smile

Comercial rifles have there place but its hard to beat a Surplus rifle for reliability. Smile

I havn't had much time to collect as many firearms as many of you have but my only rifle right now is a Surplus rifle. Cool

Dimitri

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

My pet peeve, I never seem to learn. One of these days I will learn to act on my likes. However, being 60, I doubt that I will learn much, and figure I do not have long to act out what I have learned.

When I like a rifle, regardless, I should buy a bunch of them.
I liked the 94 Swede at $25, never bought one.
Ed

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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

right now either centerfiresystems or centuryarms have new imported enfields in.

my gunshop just got 2 in in fair condition. old dark ugly wood with good bores with bayos. hes asking 130 each.

i looked but both had already sold. his gunsmith took one as did his wife lol.

i commented kool bayos i need to get one for my enfields he reached over took the one off his wifes and said here merry xmas.

i really need another enfield considering i have 3.
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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Pet peeves regarding surplus arms Reply with quote

I sure hope you bought the one he handed you.... At least his wife beating him will have a good outcome, a sale.
Ed

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