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Gun Cleaning Solvents
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popgun
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

I just returned from the Annual 3C's Varmint Hunt in Millen, GA. While at the match I saw a rather limited comparison test of the new vs. newer formulations of bore cleaners.

I have been using Butche's Bore shine lately and liked it because it was a good aggressive cleaner. One of the shooters was cleaning his rifle with Butche's when another shooter told him about Montana Extreme "50 BMG" Bore Solvent. So a test was on.

The guy cleaning his rifle cleaned with Butche's two times until he was satisfied that his rifle was clean. Then he used the "50 BMG' and there were heavy traces of copper and powder fouling on the wet patch. Two more patches were used to finish the cleaning job.

No the blue didn't come from the jag because they were using a nylon brush with a wet patch rolled on it to swab the bore and the dry patches were rolled on the same brush.

"50 BMG is a new stable formulation of Ammonia and Oil that does not seperate and does not require additional oil patches to nutralize the Ammonia after initial cleaning like with water based solvents like BBS or Sweets 7.62. 50 BMG is not for moly users because it will strip all of the moly from the barrel. In that case the new Foam Out product would be better. I was convinced and came home with a bottle of 50 BMG. I don't use moly so I passed on a can of Foam Out even though it would be a handy cleaner to take to the field.

So the first thing I did was go to the gun safe and I pulled out the 22-250 that I had cleaned the week before with BBS and repeated the test I had seen at the range. SureNuf, the wet patch was blue as the sky and the dry patches came out clean after two. For grins, and to make sure the bore was clean, I ran another wet patch through and it came out clear as did the next two dry patches.

I'm not selling the bore solvents so I feel good about recomending the 50 BMG to you guys to test for yourself.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

Thanks for that Chris, it certainly sounds like a good product.

Don't know if it has found its way to Australia yet but I will certainly be keeping an eye out for it.

Cheers, Vince

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

Question Popgun...If that stuff is that strong. What does it do to the residual oil in the pores of the steel. Other then that, sounds good. Will be lookin' for it to try. I use Hoppe's #9 Benchrest copper solvent . It has ammonia in it too and does the best job that I have found of any of the other copper solvents.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

Do you guys use copper solvent each time you clean your guns? I usually clean with a powder solvent and then with an oil. I only use copper solvent in one of five cleanings. I don't get much copper in my bores so I don't see the need.

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waumo
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

The Montana Extreme and 50 BMG is the nastiest stuff I have used. I certainly gets the copper out if you don't drop over from getting a smell of it.

I use on it those barrels that heavily copper foul and use Wipe Out, Butches or Sweets on others.

For a good all around cleaner, Butches or Hoppes is fine and available in large bottles for reasonable price.

I also shoot moly in some rifles and do not worry about cleaning it out. Just treat the barrel with Midway moly prep after cleaning and you are good to go.
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Do you guys use copper solvent each time you clean your guns? I usually clean with a powder solvent and then with an oil. I only use copper solvent in one of five cleanings. I don't get much copper in my bores so I don't see the need.

If you don't see any copper in the grooves at the muzzle, there probably is none. To be sure, just run a patch with Sweets down and it will turn the patch greenish blue if there is any copper up further that you cannot see. If none shows up, clean out the Sweets with a patch of Break-Free or Kroils and dry patch a few times. If you do find copper, My suggestion is to use KG-12 copper dissolver from KG Industries. It has no ammonia and you can let it sit in the barrel overnight if you like. After setting at least 2 hours, brush with a nylon brush, and clean as normal. The copper will all be gone.....no exceptions. It is the simplest stuff I've ever used on copper, bar none.

Blaine

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

I only copper clean after about 500 rounds, My M1A is however one of those rifles that fouls with copper fast so for that one it requires a copper cleaning after 2-300 rounds.

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

Opinion. Many shooters use a shoot and clean process on new barrels/rifles. One theory is that this allows the copper plasma to begin the process of filling the open pores in the barrel and improves the shot to shot consistency, hence, accuracy. If that is the case, stripping all the copper would seem counterproductive. If all the copper is removed, fouling shots are needed to restore POI.

We clean to restore accuracy and to protect the bore until the next useage. Rifles vary in their need for cleaning of powder and copper fouling. I have one rifle that sees accuracy degradation after less than 20 rounds. I have several others that are consistently accurate beyond 100 rounds. I have one rimfire 22 with over 8,000 rounds that has never been cleaned and whose accuracy has never shown deterioration and is used often in competition with good results. While I will run an oiled patch through the bore after a shooting session, the need to clean copper or powder fouling will depend on the point at which accuracy begins to deteriorate.

One fellow elk guide, using a Remington 700 in 280, has over 600 rounds through the bore and it has never been cleaned, except for that oily patch after useage. It groups 1.25MOA, 5/100.

I tend to use copper solvents only when the rifle requires it to restore accuracy.
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

To each his own, I guess. I thoroughly clean all my guns after each use. I find they shoot better that way. As for fouling shots, that may be necessary for target shooting, and for shooting groups, but for hunting, I want the first shot out of a cold, clean barrel to be consistent. The only way I see to do that is to make sure the barrel is totally clean for each "first" shot, otherwise, you always have a varying degree of "clean" depending on when the last time you cleaned it was. As I said, to each his own...that's what makes the world interesting.

Blaine

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

Anything in the bore can attract water - and we all know what that does to the bore! I clean my gunsafter each rang session and sometimes between groups while at the range. I hold one target for "first shot" grouping and it counts toward the daily agregate group. My loads stay within MOA (less than 1" perhundred yards) even with agregate groups of twenty or more shots. Rifles here not pistols. I have got a couple of Contenders that will do that too but my other handguns don't - or I don't with them. Either way all of my guns will do what I expect of them every time I use them. Doesn't matter whether I am killing targets of paper, steal or flesh and blood.

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popgun
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

Everyone has an opinion. Mine was that Butche's Bore Shine was the greatest until I tried the 50 BMG. If it is not your thing that is cool by me. I just like to eliminate the copper and powder fouling. I purchased the stuff from a 600 yd record holder and he uses it on his rifles. A small bottle is not that expensive and should give you an idea real fast if you want to change. Yes, there is alot of ammonia in it and it would probably clean the sinuses of a stopped up elephant but the formulation does not require additional oil patches to remove the ammonia.

Quote::
Question Popgun...If that stuff is that strong. What does it do to the residual oil in the pores of the steel.

Bushey, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but this is an oil & ammonia formulation. The ammonia will evaporate but the oil stays behind. Sounds like a good question for the manafacturer.

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rrogacki
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

popgun wrote:

Bushey, I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but this is an oil & ammonia formulation. The ammonia will evaporate but the oil stays behind. Sounds like a good question for the manafacturer.

Popgun, I'm not a chemist. But as far as I understand it, ammonia is a suspension of gaseous ammonia in water. Once it evaporates only the water is left behind.

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popgun
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

As it was explained to me the ammonia is not suspended in water in this solvent. It is a new ammonia and oil formula, no water.

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popgun
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Cleaning Solvents Reply with quote

As it was explained to me the ammonia is not suspended in water in this solvent. It is a new ammonia and oil formula, no water.

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