HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: cyylyy1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12495

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 59
BOT: 3
Total: 62
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: News
03: Forums
04: News
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Photo Albums
14: Photo Albums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: News
23: Forums
24: Photo Albums
25: Home
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Photo Albums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Photo Albums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Home
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 304
 Pictures: 2343
  · Views: 310988
  · Votes: 1302
  · Comments: 85
 

Support our Advertisers

why ??????
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3451
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

I'm betting you've got a resizing issue not a gun issue !!!

Calipers/micrometer and a headspace gauge will tell the tale !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2076
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

When your brass is soft and the neck is small, it's possible that you open up the cartridge on its shoulder, making it hard to fit in the chamber.
Measure the diameter of the shoulder before and after seating the bullet.

(just trying to add an extra possibility. Because if that's the case, changing anything on the dies won't help. Reaming you neck could be the solution)
Back to top
View user's profile
English Mike
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

If that's the case, why is the fired brass taking so much effort to resize?
Have dimensions of factory ammunition & reloads been compared?
Back to top
View user's profile
Loke
Member
Member


Joined: May 13, 2013
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

I have heard of issues with PPU brass being really hard to resize. It is really hard, and has a tendency to spring back a bit after resizing so they are hard to chamber after reloading.

_________________
Life is too short to carry an ugly gun.
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10328
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Loke...I haven't had any problems with PPU cases in .308 and I load a lot of them for my "ugly" rifle.

I use a Lee Single stage cast iron "O" press for resizing and priming all my cases, both handgun and rifle.



mike\'s folder 170 (medium).jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  84.22 KB
 Viewed:  440 Time(s)

mike\'s folder 170 (medium).jpg


_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2076
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

English Mike wrote:
If that's the case, why is the fired brass taking so much effort to resize?
Have dimensions of factory ammunition & reloads been compared?

because the inside diameter of the neck is rather small?

It's not so easy to think about things you don't see yourself. Think about how much things you do and control at the same time even without paying attention to it (example: put a new primer in, feel how much power is needed, feel with your finger to check that the primer is level while you put the brass back in the tray... and I'm sure I forget lots of things as check if the primer is not upside down, even check next primer in your primer-seater, check that the lid of the handprimerseater is still closed... and they say that men can only do 1 thing at the same time, where women can do several tasks at the same time...)
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

I would check headspace. With some brass and not all brass stretching excessivley sounds like the bolt is not consistently holding the locked position when firing.

A small base die would probably fix the symptoms but you really should look at the cause. I have never taken a BLR apart but by looking at a schematic I would look for wear on the engagement surface of the fine gears of the lever and the small sprocket on the main gear that engages the bolt.

If that is jumping a tooth intermittently due to not cocking in a straight down direction the bolt could be a few 0.001's out of battery when firing causing the case to be unsupported and stretch out of tolerance at the web wear a non small base die would not reach.

Another option is to grind off the shell holder to let your current seater get lower on the case but that has risks of over sizing the neck and shoulder.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7047
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Dawgdad...the photo is just the ducks nuts and answers a question.... it appears I may have been changing big teeth only when what I need to do is change a little tooth on wee sprocket.
the sizing issue CANT be neck area as it isnt enguaged when pressure encountered...
unfortunately my micrometer is not a flash fandangled digital one so its mm or smaller than is as accurate as I can get.
all factory loads chamber fine,no pressure needed.
If I full length resize then force shell to chamber and then eject it and load it up they fine to chamber when loaded........now that right there doesnt make sense?????? if its full length resized and we have headspace issue due to being out timing wise SHOULDNT the chamber be BIGGER/LONGER so brass should if anything be really loose???
thank you all for your imput.... will get to bottom of it sooner or later.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
RePete
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 777

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Also, get yourself a headspace/chamber gauge. I have the Lyman one.

www.lymanproducts.com/...auges.html

_________________
Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.

Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2076
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

When headspace causes the problem, why don't you try the trick they use on the Lee Enfield .303 Br? Just take a factory round, put a small rubber O-ring on its neck, chamber the round and fire. The O-ring will hold the base of the case to the bolt and your case will be fire-formed.
Now do necksizing and reload this case and the round will exactly fit into your chamber.

My old SA-FN (in 7x64, not in 30-06 anymore) also has a headspace problem. To cure it, one should exchange the part that locks the bolt. Instead of curing the headspace, I only did necksizing and the problem is gone, no more splitting cases.
Disadvantage: my 7x64 round will not fit into another 7x64 rifle.

And when this works with a semi-auto, it should also work with a lever action. Just check that you never exceed maximum caselength to avoid to much pressure.
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3451
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:

If I full length resize then force shell to chamber and then eject it and load it up they fine to chamber when loaded........now that right there doesnt make sense??????

Perhaps forcing it to chamber is changing a dimension on the case just enough to eliminate the issue !!!

You need to eliminate your resizing process as the issue.
This is easily done by comparing measurements before and after resizing of multiple places on the body of the case, the headspace measurement and the over all length.

Don't take for granite just because you ran them through the resizing die that's not the issue.
Seen it to many times.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
RePete
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 777

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
When headspace causes the problem, why don't you try the trick they use on the Lee Enfield .303 Br? Just take a factory round, put a small rubber O-ring on its neck, chamber the round and fire. The O-ring will hold the base of the case to the bolt and your case will be fire-formed.
Now do necksizing and reload this case and the round will exactly fit into your chamber.

My old SA-FN (in 7x64, not in 30-06 anymore) also has a headspace problem. To cure it, one should exchange the part that locks the bolt. Instead of curing the headspace, I only did necksizing and the problem is gone, no more splitting cases.
Disadvantage: my 7x64 round will not fit into another 7x64 rifle.

And when this works with a semi-auto, it should also work with a lever action. Just check that you never exceed maximum caselength to avoid to much pressure.

Just remember that a lever action doesn't have the camming power of a bolt action.

_________________
Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.

Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:

...
all factory loads chamber fine,no pressure needed.
If I full length resize then force shell to chamber and then eject it and load it up they fine to chamber when loaded........now that right there doesnt make sense?????? if its full length resized and we have headspace issue due to being out timing wise SHOULDNT the chamber be BIGGER/LONGER so brass should if anything be really loose???
thank you all for your input.... will get to bottom of it sooner or later.

Ok - This tells me you have a die/press issue. If all factory brass drops right in... It is at minimum spec size. A shell fired in this rifle should also drop in if the chamber was locked during firing. If the play in the gear teeth allow the bolt to move back you may be getting some part of the case near the web that is unsupported during firing that is too low for your normal sizing die to catch. Try a small base die that returns the cases to minimum spec all the way to the case head. You want every case to drop in like a factory case does. This is not a bench rest rifle where you just neck size to keep the brass tight in the chamber. In my experience with tight chambers and fat brass... a small base die does the job you need.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7047
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

update...havent done stuff all as been doing stupid hours at work...... but my tiny wee brain been going overtime.
a set of small base dies will set me back $110 NZ
std dies about $70
in back of my loading cabinet is a set of lyman all american .30/06 dies....hmmm thinks my old brain.same parent case wonder if the "new dimention" .308 dies are wider?????
so took a FLR .308 case ,applied a little lube....put 06 dies in press and removed neck expander and buggamesideways it works the FLR case from about half way down the case.......
right one of you knowledegable people tell me is this to be expected????
does the 06 have same case taper and dimentions as 08 at the web area????
will have to try chambering a empty case done this way and see what happens.
have I stumbled on a poor mans small base sizer????
wouldnt be an issue to run them all through the 06 die then the 08 one at all.....

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
RePete
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005
Posts: 777

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: why ?????? Reply with quote

Look here.

www.google.ca/imgres?i...kQ9QEILTAA

and here

members.saami.org/Manu...gfield.pdf

_________________
Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.

Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.

Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.