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Handloading Myths Exposed
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Daveboy, cleaning cases is done to get crud off the outside of the case so you are not scratching the crap out of your sizeing dies, IMO. I also like the looks of nice clean loaded rounds that wont scratch up the chambers of my guns.
I personaly clean my primer pockets so there is little chance of a primer not seating deep enough and going bang prematurely(slam fire) in my M1A or my Daughters AR-15 (which is possible with high primers)
Flash hole deburring does not, In my oppinion, make any difference in anything.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Well shoot (that's sh** with two "o"'s) Handloader...I just can't find anything on your list to argue with you over. I will say one thing. Scopes may not gather light, but they do intensify it.

Daveyboy...Tumbling protects my dies and chambers. And my sanity. It also makes it much easier to inspect cases for damage. As far as the inside is concerned. I have never seen a build up of crud in cases after the first two firings.

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Daveyboy
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

You guys have a sense of humour failure? Shocked Shocked Very Happy Smile Laughing Razz Very Happy Shocked

Daveyboy

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Blaine
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Flint54 wrote:
:cheers: Primer pocket and flash hole uniforming is a viable technique. Now the big question is will it be a benifit. I can only state for me the following.

1) When done on cases that are also weighed for uniform consistancy along with precise trimming it does contribute to better accuracy when used in a firearm capable of taking advantage of the work. In my more precise rigs ie. .223 Varmint, 6mmPPC and .308 Target setups it can account for close to a .125 - .250" measurable diffrence.

2) When done with random cases in a general use firearm that someone is only looking for "Hunting Accuracy" it IMO is extra work. If you want to do it then by all means go for it. I seriously doubt that you would notice any measurable diffrence.

One thing that I do to all my cases it to clean the interior flash hole, being that all cases made in the US have the flash hole punched in the case this action produces a burr inside the case. I don't like this as it does change the flame pattern from the primer and does cause a variation in the burning of the powder. In many cases I am probably just wasting time but it's a routine when I get a batch of new cases. Cool

I agree totally Very Happy That's exactly what I was going to say...thanks for saving me the time.

Blaine

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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

I beg to differ withFlint54 on one point, I have a custom rifle with a Panda action and Kreiger barrel all set up with all the bells and whistles and I have never seen any difference in doing all the extra work and can still shoot 1/2" or better at 200yds.

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george20042007
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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Is that it Crackshot? You're simply going to settle for 1/2 inch groups @ 200 yards? You don't even want to see what can be gained by being more meticulous? MY, MY lol
Keep it coming...
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Flint54
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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Cool If you are a BR Shooter case prep is one of the most tedious jobs initially. The whole idea is consistancy. You need to have everything as close to the same as possible. My 6BR will consistantly shoot in the high 2s low 3s (10 shots for record) at 200 yards with properly preped cases. This will put me closer to the running at a match. If cases are not preped 4s & 5s are the norm, this kind of accuracy is not needed for any kind of hunting but if you are going for record or trying to even place in the top 20 you had better do some case prep or you will be on the also shot list.

With my .223 Varmint rig and preped cases I can shoot high 1s - low 2s, this is with a factory rig & custom trigger. With run of the mill loads it will shoot high 3s - 5s all day long, this is what I will generally shoot. I go to the range with some of the specked & preped ammo just to show off at times to those that need a reality check. My .308 will pinwheel HBR targets if I do my part with preped cases, no way can I count on that if they are not.

These are my observations and results yours may vary but that is the nature of our sport and what makes it so special to each of us. Cool


As a side note: The whole reason that "Magnum Primers were developed was due to the fact that the first time that Roy Weatherby made the 30-378 years ago standard primers would not consistantly ignite the large ammount of powder so he requested a "Magnum" Version to be developed. I do not remember positively but I believe that it was CCI or Federal that worked with him. Eventually the project was dropped as there did not appear at that time there was enough of a market for it so it remained on the back burner for some years. In addition Magnum Primers provide much more consistant ignition in cold weather. Again consistancy is the key factor. Cool
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Coyote_Hunter_
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Well, you guys can do what you want.

I tumble the brass to clean it up if needed, then again to remove the sizing lube. I have a nifty tool for cleaning the primer pockets – its called an “Allen wrench”, also known as a “hex key”. I use it to poke walnut media out of the flash holes and occasionally to scrape the black, flakey residue out of a primer pocket. (Don’t need to do that much as tumbling gets rid of most of it. Did it to ALL of them before I got a tumbler.)

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ruger4570
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Tumbling/Vibrator type. will clean up the inside of the cases as well. Personally, I deburr and ream out the flash holes whenever I get new cases, I only have to do it one time for the life of the case. Does it help..sometimes. In my 6mm 284 I think it does, even if not, I want everything to be as uniform as possible, so I do it.
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GSPKurt
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Daveyboy wrote:
I'e just had a thought about tumbling. Isn't the point of cleaning cases to get the insides clean? I mean, who cares about the outside of the case? It's what happens inside that matters. That's life, I suppose. Confused

If tumbling polishes the outside of the case and it has no effect on the performance of the cartridge then surely this process is purely cosmetic? Asthetic desires being satisfied and nothing to do with performance. Shocked

Anyone want to buy a tumbler? Hardly used... Very Happy Very Happy

Confession time. I have currently got 100 .308 nickle plated cases in the damn thing as we speak. Why? Bright and shiny things...

Got to go - shoes to polish, shirts to iron, busy busy busy

Daveyboy.

ROFL

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temmi
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Oddly enough… not only do I clean Primer Pockets… I Uniform them, and de-burr the Flash hole. I do believe this helps… One other thing this helps with is consistent weights. Yes I weigh each Case, after Uniforming, Trimming, and De-burring (into .5 gr groups). I weigh each bullet and sort by exact weight, and weigh each powder charge, I only weigh one primer. When I finish loading I weigh each completed round… That way I know there have been on mistakes.

I Believe that a consistent round is the first requirement for an accurate round.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Temmi....That's where it all starts....

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

If you think it helps, it helps you, at least. Accuracy is 90% mental once you get past the load development.

Case capacity is the true measure of concistancy, not case weight. Try measuring the capacity of 10 cases that weigh the same, you will get a big surprise.

Several powders of different numbers are the same, made by one company.

Primers in revolvers partially un-seat when the cartridge is fired and the case grabs the chamber wall, primer is driven back in, by striking the recoil shield when the case releases slightly, case bounces back into the chamber and the cylinder can turn. That is why you have more dirty primer pockets in a revolver.

A bullet that is unstable will remain unstable at any speed, twist not velocity, determines stability.

Bullets do not buck brush, but a big heavy bullet at a slow velocity will hold together after striking a limb better than a light fast bullet. Neither may hit anything past the limb, but what the hey, if ya gotta have a brush gun, go for it, I have one or two myself. Truth will not be allowed to overcome "common" sense in that argument.

A bad shot with a 30-30 is just like a bad shot with a 300 ger splat. Speaking of, the 30-30 is a real power house compared to the deer guns most folks carried, years ago, like the 25-20, 32-20, 38-40 and the 44-40. Have you ever looked at the 52 Spencer round?

Just think, one day we will have killed more deer with a whiz bang, because they stopped making the 94 in 30-30. Isn't that a comforting thought?

If a 30-06 will kill every thing on the NA continent, dead, just how dead must dead be to require a 400 ka boom? Real dead, no doubt.
Ed

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Swampfox...I'll keep my .30-30 and my .30-06 thank you very much. These two, my 12 gauge (2 3/4") and my various handguns are about all I need...Oh-oh...Did I say that? I'm sorry...Forgot myself there for a moment. Never have enough guns. By The Way...The .30-06 has killed everything on this planet. Although I certainly don't recommend going against a rhino with it even if it has killed one....I wonder what the .30-06 will encounter on the next planet we conquer...

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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Handloading Myths Exposed Reply with quote

Yep, my thoughts also. But then again, there is this shiny new 400 ka boom and I might just catach a tusker at the beach....
Ed

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