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tumbler
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

Infomative thread! My first vibratory cleaner was a Lyman Turbo which did a good job, was noisey and didn't have a really adequate capacity. I sold it and bought a Dillon along with the Dillon media separator and some Dillon media additive and about ten pounds of crushed corn cob.
The Dillon is very quiet and will hold several hundred 45ACP; for me, it was a good purchase.

Crushed walnut is usually purchased for a fine shine on brass whereas the corn corb media works best for basic cleaning. I get about ten runs with the corn cob media before replacing it. The Dillon media additive supercharges the media and reduces the run time significantly. It takes about 45 minutes to get those dirty 45ACP cases ready to load.

Normally, I clean fired brass with the spent primers in place and it has reduced the time needed to pick the primer flash holes clean. Then, they go into the media separator and a few turns of the handle has all the media out of the cases and into the catch pan for reinstallation into the vibratory cleaner. Fast, easy -- just the way I like it.
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mc223
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

My first tumbler was a Dillon. I am still using the original that I purchased in 1995. It has cleaned thousand of cases and will probably clean thousands more. It is quiet, unless I put in a few extra. And like Handloader I do not decap prior to cleaning. Off to the media separator Then onto the RL550 and back to the range. KISS principle in action.
Any way back to the thread, do you need a tumbler. No, there is always Iosso and various homemade recipes that will do the job. But I sure do like spending time at the range or out popping prairy dogs instead of cleaning brass.

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george20042007
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

I didn't give it much thought til I read it here, but, I never decap before cleaning. Never saw it any other way.
Keep it coming...
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

Cleaning with Iosso less spent primers makes less work of cleaning primer pockets too....almost unnecessary.

Everyone likes clean primer pockets........
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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

Iosso is the KISS method less any grit and grime to score a chamber or expensive die......
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

The Price of the chemical cleaners has always kept me away from it. Well that and the time for drying. I also wonder what it is doing to the brass to get it clean - most of the liquids that clean brass also weeken the alloy by attacking the zinc before the copper. I know that the Iosso cleaner is made for gun brass but I just can't help myself. I get enough crushed walnut media to clean my brass for four years for $4.99 (a ten pound bag) how many gallons of that stuff can you buy for $5?
I have to clean deprimed brass - to get the lube off. If you size and deprime after you clean how do you get the lube off the cases?

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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

I'm not saying tumbling don't work........it does.

But IMHO there's too much wasted time involved with tumbling for the gains made......

Iosso is reuseable and very little is wasted....I've had a gallon last long enough to pay for itself in clean brass and saved time...........

Properly done, it get rinsed in the sink and any residuals of the stuff gets nutralized in the tap water less any worry about continued chemical action.....

And, before you get going on evironmental damage going down the sink drain, remember it gets neutralized.....and I'd venture a guess it's a fart in the wind compared to the household cleaners being flushed for the sake of clean...........
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

wildswalker wrote:
I'm not saying tumbling don't work........it does.

But IMHO there's too much wasted time involved with tumbling for the gains made......

Iosso is reuseable and very little is wasted....I've had a gallon last long enough to pay for itself in clean brass and saved time...........

Properly done, it get rinsed in the sink and any residuals of the stuff gets nutralized in the tap water less any worry about continued chemical action.....

And, before you get going on evironmental damage going down the sink drain, remember it gets neutralized.....and I'd venture a guess it's a fart in the wind compared to the household cleaners being flushed for the sake of clean...........

So just how long does the complete process take from start to finish incl making sure the inside of your brass is dry after rinsing with water?

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Handloader
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
. . . . If you size and deprime after you clean how do you get the lube off the cases?

Hi Paul

Referencing handgun brass, my dies are tungsten carbide.

On another subject brought up, I abandoned cleaning primer pockets a long time ago. When I was competing in benchrest I found that few of the top shooters ever bothered with it and found the same to be true with other top competitors in Palma and other disciplines that require top accuracy from ammo.

All of my experiments have shown no difference in group size or standard deviations whether the primer pocket is cleaned or not. That said, on the bench rifles I will standardize primer pocket depth and flash hole size, although I haven't tested to see if this makes a difference.

Other opinions, anyone?
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squirrelbait
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

Pauls, you have a good question about cleaning lube off cases. I used to wipe down every case after resizing........before I got a tumbler. I still throw the tumbled brass in towel and rub them around to clean any dust type stuff off. I don't see tumbling as a time sink. While brass is cleaning I can go about doing other things. I can not concieve of rinsing my brass in water and hoping they dry out completely. I have never cleaned primer pockets. I am not a competitive shooter or anything but if I am getting the groups/performance I need I can't see making the process more difficult or time consuming. I with KISS all the way.
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sniper
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

I have used tumblers for years with complete satisfaction. My 20 year old Midway quit on me, couldn't afford the small Dillon, so I replaced it with an RCBS. They now have a 1 year warranty on motors, if I read my information right. Somewhat noisy, but very effective.

I use ~50-50 mix of corncob and walnut hull, with a capful of Dillon stuff per load or three, and wipe my cases before sizing/depriming. I also put a strip of paper towel, about 1"X 6" in the bowl with the brass. It picks up a lot of dirt, and makes the brass/polish last longer.

Wildswalker, Welcome.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

The cleaning of brass. This seems to be a discussion that comes up often on most reloading sites. Most technics clean brass. Each have their own virtues and drawbacks. Cleaning with the use of water anywhere in the process means that you have to insure that the cases are absolutely dry either by air drying or in an oven. (I have found droplets of water still in cases that have been oven dried). I find this method time comsuming and chancy. Ultra sonic: Another wet method? Chemical cleaning: Quite efective, but can damage the brass and weaken it. Does work for those really dirty and corroded pieces of brass that you wish to save and there is no other way to remove the crud. Most of the time this isn't worth it as brass for most calibres are readily availible and cheap. Even after chemically cleaning you still have to tumble most cases to remove the chemical reactive crude (pink). And it has the same problems as wet cleaning. Rotory tumblers: Meant for heavy media and materials (rocks) that need very long tumbling times, but will work for brass. Noisy though and sometimes involves exposed moving parts. They tend to be large. And if I had little kids in the house would be concerned for their safety when not attended. Rotory tumblers tend to be a little more dust generating then other methods. Vibrator tumblers. Dust generally is produced when removing the brass from the tumbler (and not very much at that). Are not as noisy as a rotory tumblers. Have no moving parts exposed or easily gotten to by "little fingers". And, with the right media, does a fine job and, as squirrelbait said, while the tumbling process is going on you can be doing other preps and it IS much simpler (KISS). It also requires less steps and takes up less space. I use a Lyman Turbo 1200 vibrator tumbler that I have had for 20 years without failure. For less then $100 for a good one or less then $50 for a cheap one (a good used one would be in the "less then $50 range" too). They can't be beat.

For those who disagree with the above personal view...Whatever eats your shorts and blows your socks off.... Very Happy

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Deleted_User_2665
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

I'm not gonna throw much more into this "fight" other than these points....

I tumbled years ago and hated the labor intensity of it...

That was back when I thought shiney clean brass shot better...Iosso was a quick alternative I still think does a faster better job of cleaning brass, if that's what you want...

I don't fret much on dull colored brass anymore and just look to keep dirt and grit outta my rifle and dies.......

I'm musing over the fact that a time factor has been delegated here in that reloading a cartridge must come imediately after cleaning...I dipped/rinsed my cases when I deemed it needed and put them up to dry in blocks...sometimes weeks before I reloaded them. In that scenario, I found zero water content in the cases...and time invested was nill........

Re: cleaning the lube off the cases...less is more and it's needed and it's important to lube and wipe clean...what's that got to do with getting cases shiney new again? Are you tumbling lubed/sized cases or sizing tumbled cases wiped clean...??
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

Well ............. I for one will stick to my tried, tested and true Lyman Turbo Tumbler. Thanks Smile I don't want to wait weeks for the water to dry from my cases..... Very Happy

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: tumbler Reply with quote

wildswalker,
The case lube that I use won't just "wipe off". I tumble my cases after sized, deprimed and trimmed. That cleans and degreases them in one step. It also tends to remove any burrs left by the trimmer. I only lube case necks - inside and out.

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So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
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