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Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Blaine
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Joined: Feb 24, 2005
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Location: Maine

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Bob,

In answer to your questions about lapping.... New barrels (factory variety, not custom made) come with very small imperfections in the rifling cuts. The small imperfections are like microscopic burrs, if you will, that literally tear the copper from the jacket as the bullet passes over them. Custom barrels are hand lapped before they are shipped, and so these imperfections have been removed, probably by hand lapping. The Tubbs system uses grit impregnated bullets that you load yourself and shoot them normally. The grit grinds away these imperfections as the bullet goes down the barrel. The trouble is, some say too much is ground away, especially in the throat area of the barrel. hand lapping does the same thing except it requires considerably more "elbow grease". I use a jag that is 1 size smaller than the barrel I am working with so that limited pressure is brought to bear on the barrel. I load up a patch with #800 lapping compound, and run it through the barrel back and forth for about 200 strokes (changing the patch and reloading it with compound every 50 strokes). Then I clean the barrel thoroughly with Kroil and Break Free to remove any remaining grit from the compound. Then I dry patch the barrel about 3-4 times. Then I start all over again, except this time I run the patch in one direction only (down) for about 200 laps, this time changing the patch after every 10 laps. After that I go the Kroil, Break Free, and dry patch route described above until the patch comes out clean. Next I load a patch (regular size jag this time) with Flitz metal polish and run that through 15-20 times, and clean the barrel again as above. I finish with a light coating of KG-2 gun oil for storage.

That's about it. It seems like a long process, but it really doesn't take all that much time. I do this to every new barrel I get. I can't say that accuracy is improved significantly, although I believe it is, but the barrel doesn't foul as quickly allowing me to shoot more shots between cleaning.

This same process occurs over time as you shoot the gun, but it does take a quite a few shots. Now for the "other" schools of thought for you to ponder:

1) Some folks say "Just break in the barrel normally and don't worry about lapping."
2) Some folks say "Lapping is a waste of time because it doesn't really do any good."
3) Some say "Get 'ur done quick with Tubbs." (Of course that is a bit tricky if you don't hand load Crying or Very sad )
4) Still others say "Just take it out of the box and start shooting."

As to your question about moly, I have heard of too many of my friends (actual conversations) that have use moly coating and say that 1) it is near impossible to get out of the barrel, especially is you shoot when the barrel is quite warm. 2) Standard deviations are not as consistent with the moly coated bullets 3) The moly coating "strips off" as you seat the bullet, causing uneven coating.

Now I admit i have not actually tried the moly coated stuff in my own guns, but after the conversations I've had, I've heard enough to know I don't want the stuff in my barrels. Call me old fashioned, or stubborn , or plain stupid if you like, but that's just me. I've heard folks say that moly is the thing of the future and that soon we all we be using it.....maybe but I'm planning on keeping a good supply of copper/copper jacketed stuff to last me. There.....I've said too much already....blast away, guys (pun intended). Very Happy

Blaine

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Moly has been around for years and I dont see it taking over Wink

Posted a new thread to talk about the stuff. And posted my veiws on it, I admit dont know anyone who have used it personally still I've seen enough online to make me avoid it like the plague Cool

As for Lapping Blaine got to admit I'm a number 4 myself. Why worry about alittle bit of copper fowling the first little bit ?? Confused

Blaine tell me you think it would matter if you lap your barrel or not if your the type to clean the barrel every 5-10 shots (10 is really pushing it) anyways ?? Confused

Dimitri

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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Dimitri, Not sure what you mean by "....the type to clean the barrel every 5-10 shots......anyways"

When I'm out shooting, I don't clean the barrel every 5-10 shots unless I'm testing a particular load variation or other equipment/situation. The little bit of copper you refer to is (was) constant in my model 110 that is 15 years old. I lapped the barrel a few years ago and now copper fouling is minimal and clean-up is a snap. Used to be the darned thing would be full of copper after only a few shots. The gun had probably been shot 500-600 times prior to my lapping the barrel and the barrel still copper fouled every time out. After I lapped it, I can shoot it 30-40 times and I don't see any copper in the muzzle. Was it the lapping or just shooting it 500-600 times? Either way, it doesn't foul now. The change was so sudden, though, it had to be the lapping. I have a 7MM mag Savage that doesn't show any sign of copper even after 20-30 shots. It is practically new (less than 50 shots) and the barrel was lapped before the first shot (as all my barrels are now). I used to be a "number 4" too, but since I decided to start lapping my barrels, clean up takes on a whole new dimension. I'm sold on it.

Blaine

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rrogacki
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Joined: Apr 22, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Thank you Blaine, your answer was excellent and I thank you for it.

...Bob
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Crackshot
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Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

I used Moly for 30 rounds and spent the better part of the rest of the evening cleaning the crap out of my barrel, NO MORE MOLY FOR ME!

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Blaine,

Even when I'm out shooting I'll clean the barrel between strings of 5 to 10 rounds. Takes me about 2 minutes to clean the barrel so its not too much work. Cool

I've never lapped a barrel and untill I visited hunting websites I never knew the process existed. Shocked

Next rifle I purchase I'm going to fallow your recommdations though. Doesnt hurt to try Very Happy

Dimitri

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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Blaine,

Even when I'm out shooting I'll clean the barrel between strings of 5 to 10 rounds. Dimitri

Oh, I agree.....if I'm testing loads (I also use 5 shot groups) I always clean after every 5 rounds. But if I'm just using up old factory rounds, or shooting just for the practice, I only clean after the shooting session.

Last year I tried working on too many calibers at a time, and it seemed like I was cleaning more than shooting during load work ups. This year I'm going to concentrate on only 3 calibers until I have them perfected (is there such a thing Confused )

Blaine

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