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Moly Coated Bullets.
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Dimitri
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Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

Whats everyone's veiws on them ?? Confused


I myself have never and will never touched them. Looked them over to see if there was anything I liked and I turned them down from what I've read online. Cool

Con's (That made me never use not only moly but ANY coated bullet).

1) Moly traps water causing pitting and doesnt let the metal "sweat"
2) Moly needs a "seasoning" of 10+ rounds before it shoots.
3) Moly is a pain to clean after. Requires the use of abrasive bore pastes like JB's. Mad
4) Moly doesnt let you clean between strings.
5) Moly use is discuraged by MANY firearm/reloading companies and hunters and shooters alike.

Now to be fair have to have a Pro:

1) With Moly .... well I've got nothing sorry. wtf


Dimitri

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

G'Day Dimitri. Have never used moly coated, or any coated, bullets myself, however had a couple of mates who swore by them for low velocity/recoil target pistol loads.

Be interested to know exactly what the "moly" coating actually is. If it is Molybdenum Disulphide this stuff is used as an additive in automotive oils and greases as well as additives for gearboxes. This stuff is designed to put a coating on whatever it is used in as a protective and friction reducing coating. This is a little info about the stuff:

Molybdenum Disulphide

Molybdenum Disulphide forms a lubricating layer of on metal surfaces in the following manner.

The Molybdenum Disulphide molecules arrange themselves into plates with a laminar structure in which each molybdenum atom is sandwiched between two sulphur atoms. The sulphur atoms are attracted to metal and therefore become plated or bonded on to each of the adjacent bearing surfaces. In between these two platings further layers of molecules form. The sulphur-to-metal bonding is very strong, but the sulphur-to-sulphur bonding between adjacent molecules is very weak.

Thus, there are two bearing surfaces, each protectively plated by a layer of Molybdenum Disulphide molecules with sliding or lubricating layers of molecules in between. In this way direct contact of metal-to-metal surfaces is prevented, friction is considerably reduced, with the consequent elimination of local heating, wear is inhibited and protection achieved even under extreme conditions of pressure and temperature.

The molecular thickness of Molybdenum Disulphide is such that there are approximately 40,000 lubricating or cleavage planes in an MoS2 film one thousandth of an inch thick!

The Molybdenum Disulphide plating is, in effect, a separating layer of immense strength, greater than the yield stress of most metals...and in addition it possesses the low coefficient of friction of ·03 to ·06 which gives more efficient lubrication combined with this greater protection.


Now I can imagine that, when used in a firearm, it will actually coat the bore with a fine layer of the moly effectively smoothing out any imperfections and reducing friction. My questions in relation to this are:

1. Do you actually want this coating on the bore?

2. If you want the friction reducing properties of the moly but don't want to leave a coating in the bore, how do you remove it?

3. Do the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa?

I can see advantages and disadvantages in its use but I won't be using moly bullets. I figure that whilst ever my rifle can outshoot my capabilities using anything like moly is moot.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13661
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

G'Day Dimitri. Have never used moly coated, or any coated, bullets myself, however had a couple of mates who swore by them for low velocity/recoil target pistol loads.

Be interested to know exactly what the "moly" coating actually is. If it is Molybdenum Disulphide this stuff is used as an additive in automotive oils and greases as well as additives for gearboxes. This stuff is designed to put a coating on whatever it is used in as a protective and friction reducing coating. This is a little info about the stuff:

Molybdenum Disulphide

Molybdenum Disulphide forms a lubricating layer of on metal surfaces in the following manner.

The Molybdenum Disulphide molecules arrange themselves into plates with a laminar structure in which each molybdenum atom is sandwiched between two sulphur atoms. The sulphur atoms are attracted to metal and therefore become plated or bonded on to each of the adjacent bearing surfaces. In between these two platings further layers of molecules form. The sulphur-to-metal bonding is very strong, but the sulphur-to-sulphur bonding between adjacent molecules is very weak.

Thus, there are two bearing surfaces, each protectively plated by a layer of Molybdenum Disulphide molecules with sliding or lubricating layers of molecules in between. In this way direct contact of metal-to-metal surfaces is prevented, friction is considerably reduced, with the consequent elimination of local heating, wear is inhibited and protection achieved even under extreme conditions of pressure and temperature.

The molecular thickness of Molybdenum Disulphide is such that there are approximately 40,000 lubricating or cleavage planes in an MoS2 film one thousandth of an inch thick!

The Molybdenum Disulphide plating is, in effect, a separating layer of immense strength, greater than the yield stress of most metals...and in addition it possesses the low coefficient of friction of ·03 to ·06 which gives more efficient lubrication combined with this greater protection.


Now I can imagine that, when used in a firearm, it will actually coat the bore with a fine layer of the moly effectively smoothing out any imperfections and reducing friction. My questions in relation to this are:

1. Do you actually want this coating on the bore?

2. If you want the friction reducing properties of the moly but don't want to leave a coating in the bore, how do you remove it?

3. Do the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa?

I can see advantages and disadvantages in its use but I won't be using moly bullets. I figure that whilst ever my rifle can outshoot my capabilities using anything like moly is moot.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13661
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

G'Day Dimitri. Have never used moly coated, or any coated, bullets myself, however had a couple of mates who swore by them for low velocity/recoil target pistol loads.

Be interested to know exactly what the "moly" coating actually is. If it is Molybdenum Disulphide this stuff is used as an additive in automotive oils and greases as well as additives for gearboxes. This stuff is designed to put a coating on whatever it is used in as a protective and friction reducing coating. This is a link to a little info about the stuff:

Molybdenum Disulphide

Molybdenum Disulphide forms a lubricating layer of on metal surfaces in the following manner.

The Molybdenum Disulphide molecules arrange themselves into plates with a laminar structure in which each molybdenum atom is sandwiched between two sulphur atoms. The sulphur atoms are attracted to metal and therefore become plated or bonded on to each of the adjacent bearing surfaces. In between these two platings further layers of molecules form. The sulphur-to-metal bonding is very strong, but the sulphur-to-sulphur bonding between adjacent molecules is very weak.

Thus, there are two bearing surfaces, each protectively plated by a layer of Molybdenum Disulphide molecules with sliding or lubricating layers of molecules in between. In this way direct contact of metal-to-metal surfaces is prevented, friction is considerably reduced, with the consequent elimination of local heating, wear is inhibited and protection achieved even under extreme conditions of pressure and temperature.

The molecular thickness of Molybdenum Disulphide is such that there are approximately 40,000 lubricating or cleavage planes in an MoS2 film one thousandth of an inch thick!

The Molybdenum Disulphide plating is, in effect, a separating layer of immense strength, greater than the yield stress of most metals...and in addition it possesses the low coefficient of friction of ·03 to ·06 which gives more efficient lubrication combined with this greater protection.


Now I can imagine that, when used in a firearm, it will actually coat the bore with a fine layer of the moly effectively smoothing out any imperfections and reducing friction. My questions in relation to this are:

1. Do you actually want this coating on the bore?

2. If you want the friction reducing properties of the moly but don't want to leave a coating in the bore, how do you remove it?

3. Do the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa?

I can see advantages and disadvantages in its use but I won't be using moly bullets. I figure that whilst ever my rifle can outshoot my capabilities using anything like moly is moot.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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Dimitri
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Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

Vince,

You actually NEED a barrel to be coated or as they say "seasoned" before it will shoot stright. Kinda like a "cold" shot off a rifle where the first one will shoot different compared to the rest of them, execpt this process needs 10 shots or so from what I've read Shocked

Removing it is hard as far as I know needed abrasive bore pastes etc. And I am never going to use a chemical which might hurt the barrel inside of mine so I'd have no way to clean the barrel. And plus do I really want to shoot 10 rounds before being able to shoot ?? Confused I clean every 5 to 10 shoots and ten is pushing it. Cool

Only thing I'd ever use Moly in is ball bearings. Very Happy And I might still be alittle worried about using it and put in some good bearing gease instead Very Happy

Dimitri

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Spacedone
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Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 266
Location: missouri

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

i tested {100 rounds}moly coated bullets working up a elk load for my 303. my tests increased my FPS by 200 FPS moving my velocity to 2900 FPS using a less than maximum charge of IMR 3031 but also decreased my accuraccy by scattering my pattern at 100 yards instead of grouping they were all over a 6 inch target.
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george20042007
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Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 568
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

I use them in my 243 loads. My Savage in 243 likes them real well. I sight in at 200 yrds & get groups in less than 2 inches. As for cleaning the bore, I'm not doing anything special & it cleans up fine. All I see addressed here doesn't seem to be substantiated. I've read articles on the use of moly coated bullets and nothing bad was pointed out. Most say the barrel stays cooler longer and wear is reduced. I for one couldn't prove it one way or the other.
Keep it coming...
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george20042007
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Posts: 568
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

I use them in my 243 loads. My Savage in 243 likes them real well. I sight in at 200 yrds & get groups in less than 2 inches. As for cleaning the bore, I'm not doing anything special & it cleans up fine. All I see addressed here doesn't seem to be substantiated. I've read articles on the use of moly coated bullets and nothing bad was pointed out. Most say the barrel stays cooler longer and wear is reduced. I for one couldn't prove it one way or the other.
Keep it coming...
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Flint54
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Joined: Apr 09, 2005
Posts: 389
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

Thumbs Down Personal observations & experiences with MOLY!! Thumbs Down

I started to use Moly about 3 - 4 years ago, it was touted as a Holy Grail by many so unfortunately I decided to give it a try. Thankfully I decided that I would only use it in one instance/firearm until I maed a final decision.

I only used Moly coated bullets in a Contender, both a 21" & 14" 7MM TCU. I coated 110, 120, 140 & 162gr bullets from several manufactures. At first I was very disappointed as both barrels took 20 + shots to break in the barrel for use with Moly Bullets, at that time a pre treat was hard to come by. Once the barrels were "Seasoned" the velocity of my loads decreased from what they were with plain bullets, pressure appeared to be lower and once I re-evaluated my loads I was able to get additional velocity 100 - 200 fps increase but my standard deviation was much higher with the Moly loads and accuracy diminished. Clean up of the barrels was actually easier and at that time the general thinking was not to clean as often so as to not remove the moly seasoning from the barrel. Copper Fouling was a thing of the past so with all this considered I also thought that Moly was the best thing since sliced bread & peanut butter!

Now the bad news, "TAKE HEED IF YOU LIVE IN AN AREA WITH HIGH HUMIDITY!!"

I live in NE North Carolina less than 30 miles as the crow flys from the Atlantic Ocean and less than 15 miles from the Great Dismal Swamp. In the summer months daily humidity runs 85% plus with temps in the high 80s to 100+. Many days the heat index in 110 plus and 90+ humidity. Moly TRAPS Moisture, moisture in your barrel causes corrosion and corrosion eats barrels alive, this was not realized until after a couple of years so you can imagine what happened to my two barrels. Going from a nice cool 72 F house out into the heat of the day, sometimes not even firing a shot and then just given a normal wipe down.

I then got injured and did not shoot for about a year, when I was able to get back out I took out the two barrels and decided to give them a light cleaning. I tried to push a brush through the 21" barrel and got it about 6" down the barrel and it stopped. I was able to pull the brush out and when I did it lookde like an iron mine in Northern Minnesota, I was SICK! These barrels were so far gone that after I was able to get the rust out the inside looked like the Grand Canyon, I"ve never seen even an old neglected muzzleloader that was near this bad. Then I started to read reports from others that had the same experience.

Now you know why I don't like Moly! If you live in the desert you will probably never have this kind of problem but if you live in anyplace that has normal to high humidity I beg of you, don't use it.

This is my personal opinion, others may have had diffrent results but this is fact and experience. MOLY Thumbs Down

Several supporting links:

www.sprinco.com/molycomparison.html

www.snipercountry.com/...GetOut.htm
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:08 am    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

Quote::
I was able to pull the brush out and when I did it lookde like an iron mine in Northern Minnesota, I was SICK! These barrels were so far gone that after I was able to get the rust out the inside looked like the Grand Canyon, I"ve never seen even an old neglected muzzleloader that was near this bad. Then I started to read reports from others that had the same experience.

Flint what you posted isnt opinion its fact. I posted opinion never seening the problems or dealing with moly myself Shocked

Sorry to hear about your barrels Flint. Sad

Dimitri

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Moly Coated Bullets. Reply with quote

Sad True indeed, it was and is a fact that MOLY will trap moisture under it. This being the case it will begin to cause galvanic corrosion as has been explained to me. I will NEVER shoot another MOLY coated bullet in any of my firearms again, this also goes for using a moly lube on cast bullets!! Sad
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