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Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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yooperchuck
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

I was at his website and he claims that using his bullets that we reload....when all 50 rounds are shot per his load instructions....the barrel of the gun will be "lapped". The bullets are shot in ten round bunches. After each ten rounds you clean the barrel. All the bullets have an abrasive on them. The first ten rounds have a stronger abrasive. And the last ten rounds have a very mild abrasive. He claims that a regular factory barrel will benefit most. And a custom barrel will benefit SOME assuming the barrel isnt already lapped. In which case it doesnt make sence to use his "lapping" bullets. Anyone tried this? Or know of someone who has? What kind of results were noticed?

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Well , Yeah , I did use them once a while back .. Me personally , I think it's a waste of your money .. I'm not saying it will not werk , but , I couldnt shoot the difference if it was a difference ..
Lot cheeper just to shoot like you always do with "normal" bullets .. I dont know what calibers he offers on his website , but I bought mine from Brownell's and they have a very limited selection of calibers to choose from ..

Jack

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sniper
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

I just used the "Final Finisher " system by Tubbs. Very Happy

After some confusion reading the instructions, I called the company and spoke with a lady who really knows the product. She recommended a load, and after some discussion, we agreed my barrel shot "acceptably", so I only used grits #3,.4,and 5.

The rifle shoots more consistently now, and it is much easier to clean, which was my original goal. Accuracy seems enhanced, with groups of 3/4, 7/8, and 1 1/8 in. the first time at the range after lapping, and the rifle will shoot about 30 rounds now before cleaning becomes necessary.
Before, it was about half that. But what am I gonna do with 20 bullets-10 each of Grit #1 & 2?

I f I did it again, for a different rifle, I would probably buy 50 cast bullets, then load them up with LBT bore lapping grit for the first set, and J-B for the second, and shoot 20-30 total. Cool

I got mine from Midway, and they seemed to offer a full range of calibers.
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guncollector
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

I tried them on a sporterized mauser with the military barrel still in place. I maybe could see some improvement in reduced fouling but it was hard to tell.

Since using them I have heard that they do more eroding of the throat than anything else and that can't be good. A gunsmith I know advocates putting a little JB in the bore from the muzzle end and not getting it all the way to the throat. Then firing a round, cleaning and repeat a few times. Never tried it but it makes sense. Would need to be very careful not to get too much paste in the bore.
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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

I tried them, could not see or shoot the diference! Dont waste your
money, Just a guy cashing in on his reputation.

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sniper
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

guncollector wrote:
Since using them I have heard that they do more eroding of the throat than anything else and that can't be good.


The literature says that maybe .0003~ metal is removed with the full treatment. I measure a very tiny difference in the throat of my rifle, not enough to worry about resetting my dies, but YMMV.
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Flint54
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Shocked wtf IMMHO, I get very leary about putting dirty ammunition in any of my firearms. If I even drop a round on the ground I'll completely wipe it down before I use it. The mere thought of putting an abrasive bullet through the bore under high pressure makes me cringe!!! If I get a barrel that need to be lapped I will do it by hand, there have been too many reports of people damaging the throats in their rifles using "ANY" Firelapping product. For me this is a thumbs down! Rant

Now I feel better! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Flint54+1......I hand lap my barrels and I use only 800 grit lapping compound. I thought about using Tubb's, but I also don't like the idea of high velocity and hot gases pushing a gritty tight fitting projectile down my barrel. With hand lapping, I use a size smaller jag with a patch and the tightness is controlled by me. If the patch doesn't "work" fairly easily, I don't use it. The light touch gets out the high/rough spots without over working the barrel surface or throat. That's just my opinion....I could be all wrong.

Blaine

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Cool Blaine, glad to see someone does it like me and feels that same way. I've been told by a few people on other sites that the ammount of material removed in the throat from this process is minimal. SORRY,BUT ANY WEAR IN THE THROAT AREA DECREASES THE LIFE OF THE BARREL AND MAY DESTROY ANY ACCURACY POTENTIAL OF THAT BARREL. Whew, got that off my chest. Anyway I'm sure everyone now knows my feelings on the subject. Cool Cool Cool

Just don't get me started on MOLY!!!! Mad Mad Mad Cool Cool
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Flint54....ditto on the moly......I just gave away 3 boxes of Win Supremes that I got as a gift because they were moly coated. I'll stick to good ole copper.

Blaine

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rrogacki
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Blaine,

Several of my friends who reload are coating there bullets with Moly and they tell me that I should too because it prolongs the barrel life. Have you had a bad experience with Moly ??

Live Long and Shoot Well
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Daveyboy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

My deer rifle turns two rounds of ammo into two holes touching on a target at 100 yards. Deer are B I G animals so I reckon that it is accurate enough.

Lapping? You guys need to get a hobby. Get out more!

Daveyboy

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rrogacki
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Excuse my ignorance, but what is lapping and what is the process ?

Thanks...Bob
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote

Bob,

In answer to your questions about lapping.... New barrels (factory variety, not custom made) come with very small imperfections in the rifling cuts. The small imperfections are like microscopic burrs, if you will, that literally tear the copper from the jacket as the bullet passes over them. Custom barrels are hand lapped before they are shipped, and so these imperfections have been removed. The Tubbs system uses grit impregnated bullets that you load yourself and shoot them normally. The grit grinds away these imperfections as the bullet goes down the barrel. The trouble is, some say too much is ground away, especially in the throat area of the barrel. hand lapping does the same thing except it requires considerably more "elbow grease". I use a jag that is 1 size smaller than the barrel I am working with so that limited pressure is brought to bear on the barrel. I load up a patch with #800 lapping compound, and run it through the barrel back and forth for about 200 strokes (changing the patch and reloading it with compound every 50 strokes). Then I clean the barrel thoroughly with Kroil and Break Free to remove any remaining grit from the compound. Then I dry patch the barrel about 3-4 times. Then I start all over again, except this time I run the patch in one direction only (down) for about 200 laps, this time changing the patch after every 10 laps. After that I go the Kroil, Break Free, and dry patch route described above until the patch comes out clean. Next I load a patch (regular size jag this time) with Flitz metal polish and run that through 15-20 times, and clean the barrel again as above. I finish with a light coating of KG-2 gun oil for storage.

That's about it. It seems like a long process, but it really doesn't take all that much time. I do this to every new barrel I get. I can't say that accuracy is improved significantly, although I believe it is, but the barrel doesn't foul as quickly allowing me to shoot more shots between cleaning.

This same process occurs over time as you shoot the gun, but it does take a quite a few shots. Now for the "other" schools of thought for you to ponder:

1) Some folks say "Just break in the barrel normally and don't worry about lapping."
2) Some folks say "Lapping is a waste of time because it doesn't really do any good."
3) Some say "Get 'ur done quick with Tubbs." (Of course that is a bit tricky if you don't hand load Crying or Very sad )
4) Still others say "Just take it out of the box and start shooting."

As to your question about moly, I have heard of too many of my friends (actual conversations) that have use moly coating and say that 1) it is near impossible to get out of the barrel, especially is you shoot when the barrel is quite warm. 2) Standard deviations are not as consistent with the moly coated bullets 3) The moly coating "strips off" as you seat the bullet, causing uneven coating.

Now I admit i have not actually tried the moly coated stuff in my own guns, but after the conversations I've had, I've heard enough to know I don't want the stuff in my barrels. Call me old fashioned, or stubborn , or plain stupid if you like, but that's just me. I've heard folks say that moly is the thing of the future and that soon we all we be using it.....maybe but I'm planning on keeping a good supply of copper/copper jacketed stuff to last me. There.....I've said too much already....blast away, guys (pun intended). Very Happy

Blaine

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Last edited by Blaine on Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have information on Dave tubbs "lapping rounds"? Reply with quote


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Last edited by Blaine on Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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