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AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:13 am    Post subject: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Well I just spent one of those days at the range.
Blue sky, perfect temp bugger all wind, 1 of those days
The reason, to work out a load in .222 for a bunch of 55 grn Sierra blitz kings I have.
Powder ADI AR 2207 ( H/IMR 4198 equivalent). 17.5 grn through to 19.5 grn in roughly .2 or .3 grn increments.
Results?, SH*^ to say the least.
Every single one of 50 rounds keyholed ie made a hole about 1 1/2 diameters. Not one stabilised.
My 50 grn pet load on the other hand worked as advertised around moa.
Now this had me stuffed as I had used 55 grn Sierras before with brilliant results.
Reason appears to be the new blitz kings PTno 1455 are around 10 to 15% (micrometer eyeball) longer than the last Sierra 55 grn I used which looking through the archive was Pt no 1340 or 1350.
So they appear to not stabilise in a 1 in 14 barrel on the evergreen Remington 788, as the are to long.
I would have taught Vince a few new words if he wasnt tied up in honey dew..........
So any Aussies out there with a .223 with a 1 in 12 or faster twist want to buy about 450 blitzkings?

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

that sucks Mate......have you tried out a sample pack of 45grn tsx or 50grn TTSX yet?????
the 50 and 52 grn hpfb speers go well in trebly too.

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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Not yet, I have just found a full box of Sierra 55 grns circa 1980 ptno 1350 in the bottom of a box.
Might give them a run and see what happens, worked well 30 years ago Smile , I think they still make them as well so if they work out I'll get 500 or so.
I spend more time working up loads than hunting.........

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Why don't you try a powder with slower burning rate first? My pet-load for hunting with the .222 is the 63 grs SMP of Sierra with PCl507, a powder with a burning rate as IMR3031 - H322 (I use 21 grs PCl507)
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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Apart from the terrible results with the triple2 mate...how did your shoulder go? Did it stand up to the recoil without any problems.

I am really disappointed that I couldn't get out today...it was near enough 1:30pm by the time I had finished all the things SWMBO wanted to do, then I had to be at my shooting buddies place by about 4pm to feed his pets (he's away). It would have been great to learn some new words mate...next time.

Have you given a thought to trying the Hornady 55gn V-MAX projectiles mate? My .223 loves them and shoots MOA or smaller out to 200 metres using ADI BM 8208. I've never loaded for the Triple2 so I am not sure what their idiosyncrasies are, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Mate,
I havent tried the Vmax as yet.
Seems a lot of the newer projectiles, especially one with the plastic tips are longer in length and have a boat tail for better ballistic co efficient and better performance in the .223 and 22/250 with faster twist barrels
The old .222 with 1 in 14 barrel hasnt a hope in stabilising these.
Old school gun, new school problem, old school answer, ie old school bullets I think.
I'll load up a batch of the old Sierra 55 grs I found earlier tonight and see what happens.
Just means another day at the range, bugger Smile

Aloys,
been doing some research and I'm not the only one having the keyholing issue with these projectiles, people with .223 and 22/250 with slower twist barrels are also having it.
I'll see if I can find out the specs on your recommended projectile, if its shorter than the 55 gr blitz king might be worth a go.
I take it your .222 has a 1 in 14 twist and is in all probility as old as mine.

Cheers guys

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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Hornady, Winchester and Remington make 'old school' soft point projectiles with a flat base at a reasonable price these days...and they aren't too difficult to find.

Have a look at Cleaver's website Cleaver Firearms as he often has specials on projectiles. It's a bit of a drive from your place, but it would be a nice day out for SWMBO and yourself...lunch at Redcliffe or Scarborough then a visit to the gun shop, what more could you ask mate. Another option is to let me know if you see something that takes your fancy and I can pop up there to grab it for you mate.

I'll keep my eye out for 55gn and smaller Soft Point projectiles for you whenever I visit a gun shop mate. I can see you like the Sierra offering so I'll look for them in particular, but there are other offerings that may well be suitable...even Nosler.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

dhc4ever wrote:
Every single one of 50 rounds keyholed ie made a hole about 1 1/2 diameters. Not one stabilised .......... So any Aussies out there with a .223 with a 1 in 12 or faster twist want to buy about 450 blitzkings?

dhc4ever, you should have 499 to sell. Why did you shoot more than a couple and expect different results? The results won't change unless you increase velocity significantly or the air temperature becomes significantly warmer (less density). 1:14 is for lighter varmint rounds and iffy bullets above 50-52 grains. You might have try shooting them in the dead heat of summer. I had some long 150 TSX not stabilize in my .270 at until the temperature got above 85F. Then they were dead accurate. Only problem was they still weren't any good for hunting because the bullet tumbled the instant it made contact and would not expand (I could have shot the recovered bullets again).

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Yep, the old problem of bullets too long in slow twist barrels that can't be pushed fast enough to stabilize. Wish you lived closer - I would send you several hundred Hornady 50-grain SX bullets that I can't use in my .223 because I push them a bit too fast. That bullet has a very thin jacket that starts rupturing at velocities over about 3,400 fps but shoots very well at about 3,000 to 3,300 fps in 1-12" barrels as well as 1-14". Experience has shown them to blow up on the way to the target at any speed over 3,300 fps in a barrel faster than 1-12". Today's 1-8 barrels simply destroy them at any speed over around 3,200 fps.
I've sort of had similar issues as you with most 55-grain bullets in my 1-14" .22/250 at 3,650 to 3,700 fps. They shoot fairly well at that velocity but occasional flyers make me think that they are just barely stabilized. I switched to 52-grain AMax bullets in my .22/250 at 3,900 fps (CFE223 and 26" Ruger #1B with 1-14" twist) and 52-grain Hornady HPBT Match at 3,4500 in my .223 (AA DATA 2200 and 26" Ruger #1B with 1-12" twist). Both loads average well under .5" at 100 yards from a bench and I do my part (at least until that .22/250 scope died! LOL).

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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Slim,
I was hoping that as I worked up through the loading and velocities increased it would improve, it didnt. Ignorance and misplaced optimism at their best.

Single,
Thanks for the offer.
Well seems you can learn something even after 30 years of reloading. And
I have seen the same issue you had with rupturing bullets with a mate who also had a 22/250.

Cheers guys

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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
Apart from the terrible results with the triple2 mate...how did your shoulder go? Did it stand up to the recoil without any problems.

Vince,
I didnt mention the shoulder last night, I wanted to see how it pulled up this morning after the massive recoil of .22 rimfire and .222.
A couple of the .222 shots twanged me, which to my eyes means the .308 and 12 g can wait until around November Sad
It all came up well this morning.
Back on the Moto Guzzi is the next milestone, I seem to be able to move it around the shed without dropping it or doubling up in pain.
The range day will happen, just a matter of hearding the cats into the right paddock, hopefully this year.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

the 50 grn hornady spsx are awesome at around the 3000fps mark on wallaby sized animals...but talk about messy, big jellyfied bruise area.
the speer 52grn fbhp are short and seem to work well enough for me, I ve recovered two from bigger animals (dead ones mind you) that had tumbled on impact and not opened at all.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Bullet selection in the calibres that use the. 224 and. 308 bullets can be a Royal PITA given the wide range of twist rates even within the same calibre. Add all the different combinations of bullet design, weight, powder and velocities available and the way these affect bullet stability it can be a bit confusing picking your way through the forest. I have a whole collection of bullets that my. 223 likes less than few I have determined are the most accurate. Of course this is what makes rolling your own so much fun as a hobby although it csn get a bit expensive chasing that ellusive one ragged hole.

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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Mac,
the fun stopped at the first keyhole.
Steep learning curve, just as you think you have a handle on it.
So now I have around 450 Sierras that are too long AND I found another 250 box of near identical 55grn Noslers a mate gave me when he sold his .223.
I'm swimming in pills I cant shoot.
To top it all off I think my 25/06 has been suffering similar problems with 120 grn projectiles, they dont keyhole but I'm thinking they are not completely stable either, looking at the inconsistent groups.
One ragged hole, thats like unicorn poo isnt it? and just as expensive, I'd be happy with a consistent 1 to 1.5 moa, preferably 1. Scratch

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Grey_Wolf
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Reply with quote

Don't know what the equivalent would be down there but I've had great luck with IMR 8208XBR in my triple dueces. That and 50 (or is it 52 grain) Bergers.
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