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Fire and Ammo
Discussion that doesnt fit other Topics
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:53 am    Post subject: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

SAAMI - youtube

Anyone whose been around guns and ammo has probably had an argument or two about what happens to ammo during a fire.
Here's the proof to show the uninformed Hollywood explosions don't occur in the real world.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

Then WHY are we having to pay "hazardess material" shipping fees?!!?

Oh...Forgot...Whereever or whenever the gov can extort money from the citizen it will...

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Then WHY are we having to pay "hazardess material" shipping fees?!!?

Oh...Forgot...Whereever or whenever the gov can extort money from the citizen it will...

Yup, why is it we pay haz/mat for primers, powder but not for a fully assembled cartridge?

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

OV1 wrote:
Yup, why is it we pay haz/mat for primers, powder but not for a fully assembled cartridge?

OV1...sshhhhhh...you'll give the buggers ideas mate.

That is a good video, confirms what I pretty much expected or knew would happen. The Aussie Army Ammo Techs destroy damaged or unserviceable small arms ammo by burning it in a steel cased incinerator without any issues, have done for more years than I know.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

LOL sounds like popcorn in microwave

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Azar
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

Quote::
Then WHY are we having to pay "hazardess material" shipping fees?!!?

Oh...Forgot...Whereever or whenever the gov can extort money from the citizen it will...

While your annoyance is understandable I think it may be misdirected. I'm fairly sure it doesn't have anything to do with government. Those fees are not mandated by law, it's the individual businesses (UPS/Fed Ex, etc) charging an extra fee...because they can.

I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure it's their choice on whether to charge it or not.
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

OSHA defines hazmat as (along with some others, but here's the one we're interested in);

• Subpart Title: Hazardous Materials
• Standard Number: 1910.109
• Title: Explosives and blasting agents.

..1910.109(a)(12)
1910.109(a)(12)

"Semiconductive hose." Semiconductive hose - a hose with an electrical resistance high enough to limit flow of stray electric currents to safe levels, yet not so high as to prevent drainage of static electric charges to ground; hose of not more than 2 megohms resistance over its entire length and of not less than 5,000 ohms per foot meets the requirement.

1910.109(a)(13)
"Small arms ammunition." Small arms ammunition - any shotgun, rifle, pistol, or revolver cartridge, and cartridges for propellant-actuated power devices and industrial guns. Military - type ammunition containing explosive - bursting charges, incendiary, tracer, spotting, or pyrotechnic projectiles is excluded from this definition.

1910.109(a)(14)
"Small arms ammunition primers." Small arms ammunition primers - small percussion-sensitive explosive charges, encased in a cup, used to ignite propellant powder.

1910.109(a)(15)
"Smokeless propellants." Smokeless propellants - solid propellants, commonly called smokeless powders in the trade, used in small arms ammunition, cannon, rockets, propellant-actuated power devices, etc.

1910.109(a)(16)
"Special industrial explosives devices." Special industrial explosives devices - explosive-actuated power devices and propellant-actuated power devices.


So if you're a carrier of these items then OSHA requires you (to protect the employees involved) to follow special carrier regulations;


..1910.109(d)(1)(iii)
1910.109(d)(1)(iii)

Explosives shall not be transferred from one vehicle to another within the confines of any jurisdiction (city, county, State, or other area) without informing the fire and police departments thereof. In the event of breakdown or collision the local fire and police departments shall be promptly notified to help safeguard such emergencies. Explosives shall be transferred from the disabled vehicle to another only, when proper and qualified supervision is provided.

1910.109(d)(1)(iv)
Blasting caps or electric blasting caps shall not be transported over the highways on the same vehicles with other explosives, unless packaged, segregated, and transported in accordance with the Department of Transportation's Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR parts 177-180).

1910.109(d)(2)
"Transportation vehicles."

1910.109(d)(2)(i)
Vehicles used for transporting explosives shall be strong enough to carry the load without difficulty and be in good mechanical condition. If vehicles do not have a closed body, the body shall be covered with a flameproof and moistureproof tarpaulin or other effective protection against moisture and sparks. All vehicles used for the transportation of explosives shall have tight floors and any exposed spark-producing metal on the inside of the body shall be covered with wood or other nonsparking materials to prevent contact with packages of explosives. Packages of explosives shall not be loaded above the sides of an open-body vehicle.

1910.109(d)(2)(ii)
Every vehicle used for transporting explosives and oxidizing materials listed in paragraph (d)(2)(ii)(a) of this section shall be marked as follows:

1910.109(d)(2)(ii)(a)
Exterior markings or placards required on applicable vehicles shall be as follows for the various classes of commodities:

and it goes on and on and on......thus...the fee



Suz

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Azar
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

Right, there are regulations on how ammunition/powder/primers are handled but the fee isn't mandated by law. It's the shipping companies enacting it.

Perhaps I'm just splitting hairs here...
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

I agree Azar, and it is a rather large fee. Like paying a toll to cross a bridge, after a while there's some profit being made at our expense. But then again they do have to leap through some hoops to comply. I don't know to what extent they actually go (to comply) but I bet they've smoothed out their expense to be nil by now. The only reason they'd lower the fee would be if it was hurting them.....can't see that happening. Well we just have to deal with it in other ways like group buys, local retail and maybe pressuring them to get on the ball and find some way to stock their shelves!


Suz

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

Suz, you can always light my fire and knowing our age, I can assure you that there is no room for a hazard fee...

Ooops... Smile

Let me correct this a little by adding "as long as the better side of the family doesn't know it, but she seems to have a special nose for discovering when you get more than appetite on other windows..."
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

ok back to haz fee/ DG fee Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
from a transport/truck drivers side of things Cool
small arms ammunition is quantities bigger than 25kg 50ish lb (I think it is) becomes class 1 explosive
which my good fellows is a right pain in the arse to cart as it HAS to be carted ALONE...no other DGs at all can be on same unit..so if your truck load of goods has a couple of bottles of bleach or hairspray a battery or drum of weed spray you CANNOT take the class 1 if you have any of the others...or if you do load it on..thats it you cant pick up anything else along the way that may fall into any of the other classes.
thats why its a pain in the bum
thats the way the law has been written
transport operators have rules they HAVE TO FOLLOW
some companies will pack stuff up in unmarked boxes and post it undeclared, no knowledge=no hassle

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Fire and Ammo Reply with quote

To my understanding trucking/shipping companies pay for their license/permits based upon what they transport.
The drivers themselves must also carry the appropriate CDL.
This is where part of the money goes to.

The regulations that they must abide by can get costly and burdensome.
Some companies have staff that do nothing more than make sure their company stays within those guidelines.
This is where another part of the money goes to.

This where the term "Regulatory Compliance Fees" comes from.

I'm willing to bet that once they started with these fees they realized it could be an additional revenue maker also.
This is probably where the bulk of the money goes.

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