300 Win Mag Questions?

slimjim · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: 300 Win Mag Questions?

I started reloading 300 Win Mag for my hunting buddy. I have a range of monolithic bullets from 150 to 168 grains. SAAMI lists the max COAL at 3.340" The ogive of these bullets are at the neck case. What's up with this? I would have expected COALs to be much longer. These aren't even VLD bullets that would be even longer. Any insight? Why so short a neck? Any other tips for loading a 300 Win Mag? Thanks in advance.

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

Do the bullet manufacturers list a different OAL? I'd try some loaded as long as the magazine allows (assuming the rifle has a magazine) and then make sure that the bullets aren't touching the rifling at that length.

Elvis · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

hmm I was reading about this just yesterday..SAAMI lengths pressures etc etc are set as the norm so any factory will chamber/fire etc as for magazine length..well how long would the action have to be to cover all eventualities??? a happy medium had to be found and line drawn somewhere...now asuming (yeah yeah I know) that the .300 win mag is NOT going to be NORMALLY used for rapid fire aplications...shite with that amount of grunt one shot SHOULD be all thats needed. you could do what guys are doing over here for long range rifles.......find the sweet spot no matter how far out you have to seat bullet and load some rounds at that length for the first vital shot and have 2nd other mag length load for follow ups needed. the guys doing this sometimes have to remove bolt to extract 1st round if its not fired...not a big deal really if you think about it.

Bushmaster · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

Seat the bullet .010 to .020 off the leeds or rifling. Test in magazine.

Aloysius · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

and I can add: when you need a longer neck, change caliber into .308 Norma Magnum.

And for my .300 WM's (an FN and a Rem. Sendero) I still don't use the monolithics but I sure like the 180 grs in the FN and the 200-220 grs in the Sendero.
Barnes recommends the next in line lower weight, so I would suggest to start with the 168 grs.

By the way: does anyone know how to remove that funny part at the end of the barrel of such a Sendero? Is it threaded? Left or right? Anyone ever exchanged that part for something that gives more benefits than just the looks? How did you remove it? Heat it first?

Sorry SJ, but while writing my reply I just realized how much time these things are gathering dust in the safe. That FN in .300 WM was my first real hunting rifle and your thread gave me some nostalgic feelings... I still believe it's a very good caliber for people with only 1 rifle who don't own a .375 H&H...

slimjim · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

Elvis, an interesting idea to load a long COAL first and shorter in the magazine.

It will be a week or so before I get his rifle to measure mag length and distance to the lands.

Aloys, it the Barnes 168 TTSX that threw me. Its ogive is just inside the neck at 3.340". Now I know why Barnes loads 165s in their 300 WM and 168s in the .308. The .308 has more room for a longer bullet.

tikkat3 · Super Member Joined: Jul 30, 2006 Posts: 800

The bottom of the Barnes bullet poster will tell you why there are diffferent ogives for 165 and 168'. quote
"The 30 cal 165 gr TSX incorporates a shorter tangent ogive into the nose profile. It’s designed for cartridges with short magazines such as the 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag.
+ #30844 - The 30 caliber 168 gr TSX has our Match Grade ogive which lengthens the nose profile. It is best suited for cartridges such as the .308 Winchester, .30-06 and 300 Weatherby."

Aloysius · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

Conclusion: you load the 168 TTSX for that first (long distance) shot and put the 165 grs TSX in the magazine, as Elvis suggested.
I would probably put the 165 grs in my rifle and keep the 168 grs in my pocket till I get the opportunity for a longdistance shot where I could use the extra match grade ogive. Long distance often also means more time, so I would have time to replace my normal hunting bullet by my super special round.
And I'm almost sure that you will have little difference in traject between the 2 bullets when the distance is shorter than fe. 300 yards.
And when I have to shoot long distance, I'm sure the top of my bullet is not already ruined by loading and unloading (as so often happens).

slimjim · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

tikkat3 wrote:

The bottom of the Barnes bullet poster "The 30 cal 165 gr TSX incorporates a shorter tangent ogive into the nose profile. It’s designed for cartridges with short magazines such as the 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag.
+ #30844 - The 30 caliber 168 gr TSX has our Match Grade ogive which lengthens the nose profile. It is best suited for cartridges such as the .308 Winchester, .30-06 and 300 Weatherby."

Thanks, tikka3. That explains it. The great .300 Win Mag can't shoot the longer low drag bullets unless you have a longer than standard magazine.

Divernhunter · Rookie Member Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 1

Just load the 150 grain TTSX as it will preform on game like a 195 grain lead core bullet. Load them fast as speed is what makes the non-lead bullets work(expand).
IF you feel the need for a heavier bullet use the 165 TTSX. The 150 will work on any game which the 300 mag is suitable for.

slimjim · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

Divernhunter, I agree. The 150 TTSX can do the job well. I'm actually using the 300 WM as a test platform for all the .308 monolithic bullets. The .308 just doesn't produce enough energy to test them properly. When I get done, I should be able to tell my hunting buddy which is the most accurate/best bullet in his gun.

BTW, its actually kinetic energy that causes a bullet to expand, e.g., the heavier monolithic bullets will expand at a lower velocity than the lighter ones. Another surprise the TSX out expands the TTSX in every caliber I've tested, .223 to .308. That is probably why Remington uses the TSX in their Hog Hammer.

Elvis · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:44 am Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

I beg to differ.. centrifugal force has a big part to play in expansion. try a rounded figures for ease.1 in 12" twist doing 3000 fps =3000 revs per second x 60seconds =180000rpm and that is a huge amount of force. some of the reason why varmit made rifles with fast twists have such a pink mist tendency.

slimjim · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

www.huntingnut.com/ind...26&start=0

Elvis, here is the link to the thread showing the test data and analysis that energy is the primary determinant for bullet expansion. However, speaking specifically with regards to monolithic bullets, I have found indications that twist rate does affect the amount of expansion but it seems to be at the other extreme. A bullet may have enough twist to stay stable in flight but it needs more twist to stay stable going through tissue. If the bullet cannot stay stable long enough for it to shorten and increase its diameter (expand), it tumbles before the force of impact can fully expand the bullet. That is my theory and I am trying to collect enough test evidence to support it.

There is not that much difference in centrifical force between a 150 TTSX launched at 3300 fps and a 168 TTSX at 3100 fps.

Elvis · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:25 am Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

yip I see it..now do same thing using velocity NOT energy figures as velocity determines spin speed Scratch

..no you dont need to as every second magazine has picture of how a bullet will expand at different speeds Very Happy

do you perchance have capacity to test bullet at same speed with two differing twist rates??? could be interesting to see that result.
getting a bullet to tumble has been experimented a lot in the past some fellas...well quite a few really are now using A Max bullets for long range work as they are so fragile they will distruct at low speed with good killing results,dont try them up close or shallow wound occurs Scratch

tis all horses for courses at end of the day.
you have done great tests and I take my hat off to you.

slimjim · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: Re: 300 Win Mag Questions?

Elvis, I have a 6.8mm SPC with a 11.25 twist and my trusted 270 Win with a 1 in 10 twist. I started to notice a difference with the Barnes 110 TTSX at the same impact speeds, 6.8 at 100 yards and the 270 at 300 plus. This is a significant difference, twist plus the added rpm from the higher velocity. Unlike velocity, rotation decays slowly. I also have a 16 inch.223 with 1 in 9 and a 24 inch with 1 in 8 and have seen a difference between those two. It seems to be occurring in the mid to lower energy range. I am going to borrow a buddy's .223 with a 6.5 twist and compare. I just started testing the new 55gr GMX which seems to show a difference at all energy levels. This bullet expands rapidly and has 6 tentacles that reach out.