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Old Rifles, Fine Rifles
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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Handloader
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Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

Today's newer rifles are built to excellent tolerances, and today's metallugry has lead to advances in durability, accuracy and safety. Put to the test, the contemporary rifle will get the job done. That said, there is still an overwhelming attraction for some older rifles.

Older firearms exude a quality of craftsmanship and a certain warmth I find lacking in most modern arms. Wood quality, bluing quality, and handling characteristics often are far better than the new stuff. Older rifles have a warmth and a personality that convey the instant they are handled. At least for me.

I like anything pre64 Winchester and have accumulated some nice examples. Today, I got a Dumoulin that was made in 1956 on a FN commerical 98 and marveled at workmanship, eventhough, this rifle was, pricewise, a mid range firearm when it was made. Chambered in 300 Wby Mag, it has hand checkering, deep high polish blue, a beautiful blond walnut stock, jeweled bolt & follower with an action that is smooth as butter. Character. Lots of character. All of this for about 30% more than a new Remington CDL.

Speaking of Remingtons, the older 700s and their precursors, the 722, 721, 725s seem to be much more refined than the new ones. Bolts work smoother, wood is better grade and the bluing far better. They can be had for less money than a new one, too. Let's see, a better rifle for less money -- a no brainer for me.

Perhaps, this is why used rifles are more in demand and popular than new? It's not about price only, its about that special feel and pride of ownership. Afterall, how many shooters do you know that are really proud of their brand new rifle?
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george20042007
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Joined: Jan 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

Handloader, like you, I find some older guns more appealing than their newer versions, i.e. Remington 1100 shotguns. Still, some newer guns have the latest innovations that ended up in my safe that I am proud to use often. Examples are a Savage bolt action in .243 Winchester that has an accutrig. It's extremely accurate. Then the Marlin 1895 in .45-70 & another Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited Edition in .45 LC. All new guns I use regularly that are cheaper, stronger & more reliable than those older collectibles I see at Cowboy Action events. I find it hard in wanting to buy older guns, primarily because I use mine a lot, an older gun would be more of a show piece & I'd be afraid to use it in fear of reducing its' value.
Keep it coming...
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popgun
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

Handloader
I love the old Winchesters too, especially the M70s. The new Winchester composite stock with raised bumps (VD Pimples) are just plain ugly and I would prefer checkering. You even see the molded in designs in the TC composite stocks. U G L Y !!!! They can keep the gaping holes in the forends too. Has all of the fine figured stock material been burned as firewood?

George,
Welcome to HuntingNut. I have some unfired rifles. One Pre-64 M70 in 264 WM lost its new/unfired status when I made a trip to Texas for a deer hunt. I never plan to sell the rifle myself so I fugured that the value means noting to me. So I worked up some loads and off to Texas I went. No deer, but two coyoties and one javelina bit the dust.

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Spacedone
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

the difference between old and new firearms usually have very little to do with materials of construction. the real difference is in the pride with which they were made.

i love old enfield war guns made during WW! and WW2. even during war time these guns were made using exceptional materials and the builders had pride in what they were creating. there was no profit rules all concerns. what was important was that the firearm shot accurately and that it was made "RIGHT". now companies dont care whars "RIGHT" whats important is shaving costs and maximizing profit.

the days of hand cold lapped barrels made withing extreme tolerences are almost over. wood craftsman are replaced by cheap machines and cheap still that will just handle the job instead of metal that not only will do the job but do it forever is a thing of the past.

new guns dont feel as real as tthe old guns built to last a lifetime. they dont weigh the same and they dont come up to the shoulder the same.

a 300 win mag now is designed with the idea in mind that after its shot 1000 times that "hey we can sell these idiots a new improved more expensive barrel" where my old enfields which have shot 10,000 rounds are ready to shoot 10,000 more.

the same materials are available today as 50 years ago and there are still super quality craftsmen the difference is no company will spend the money to buy the real grade materials or pay the craftsmen a real wage when a machine will do the same job at 10 percent of the quality level but 30 times the profit level.

today pride in workmanship is trumped by pride in profit levels.

until this changes back {if it ever will} modern firearms will never to me have as much interest as guns made 50 years ago.
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

Spacedone: your observations about profit and cost are probably the essence of the matter. Afterall, how much would it cost to manufacture a pre64 Model 70 today.

The finely made contemporary rifles, such as the Dakota or the Coopers for example, are rather spendy, but, I take comfort in knowing they are available. Freedom Arms revolvers have no equal and they, too, are available. I want my weekly allowance increased!

George: my opinion is that firearms were made with the intent to be used and, for me, that goes for even the older classic ones. I have several pre64 M70s, two of which are Supergrades, but I never hesitate to grab one and head for the hunting fields. Afterall, we spend a whole lot more time looking at our rifles than shooting them. And, another point, I would much rather my grandkids inheret a really nice firearm than just a basic. Judging from their reaction, so would they.

And, welcome to the forum! It's good to see another Arizona member.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

My gun safe has both old(?) and new(?) rifles and hanguns in it. I have some choice old(?) guns and I have some choice new(?) guns. By careful selection and the willingness to spend an extra dime here and there I see no difference in the firearms of today and yesteryear. One just has to do his/her research and be watchful. There are good buys for old(?) and there are good buys for new(?)...

Just like yesteryear there were some cheap ones then as there are now...

I own a 1970 Browning 12 gauge BSS and a 1995 Browning .30-06 A-Bolt. If you put them side by side you can't tell the difference in fit and finish.

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

I agree that older rifles (and shotguns) are to my liking and I spend a lot of time around the used gun racks. I cannot afford the newer rifles so it is just as well. Good points. All the best...
Gil

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george20042007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

After some thought, I really gotta let you know, there is one older gun I've wanted like forever. An M1 Garand. Problem is, a good run will run around $1500.00 & a great one for over $2000.00, if you can still find one. I have a Browning Safari in 30-06, that was a compromise.
Keep it coming...
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Crackshot
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

George
Have you ever participated in a CMP sanctioned match? If so you qualify for a CMP M1 rifle purchase, they are not pretty, but they function very well,(the CMP armourers and gunsmiths are military trained and the mechanics of the weapons are top notch) and you can get new wood from Midway for very little scratch, and have a very nice and accurate M1.

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george20042007
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Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

Crackshot
I know a little about CMP. Recent magazine articles have also made mention of this. I don't know if I'll have an opportunity to participate in a CMP match, but, may try. Thanks for the input.
Keep it coming...
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

George,

clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bi...Search.cgi

It lists some competitions inculding ones in Arizona Smile

Dimitri

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roklok
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

At the CMP store at Camp Perry they had a very nice rack of collector grade M-1s for 1400 but I am very happy with my service grade for 500.
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Gil Martin
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Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

George,
M1 Garands do show up from time to time on the used gun racks. True, the prices keep going up, but around here they are still available. I bought a Springfield with perfect metal and a terrible stock for $339.00. I got a Boyds stock from Midway on sale for $79.00 plus shipping. The rifle now looks great. My nephew got a used M1 Garand for $499.99 and spent $200.00 on a new barrel. They are around and you might get lucky. All the best...
Gil

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Crackshot
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Joined: Oct 23, 2005
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Location: Mich

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Old Rifles, Fine Rifles Reply with quote

I have a International Harvester M1, And 2 Winchester M1carbines, One of which is for sale, If you guys now of any one interested in a Winchester M1 carbine?
I also have a New in Box, Williams Gun Sight Co. Scope mount and rings for Mauser 98.
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