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free squibs here
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Elvis, Paul mentioned the .22 Hornet and there it's no problem. Most of the loadings for the .22 Hornet even use handgunpowders. I have also seen bad groupes when using magnum primers in the .22 Hornet. And look at S&B, they use the same primer for small pistol and for small rifle.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

no issues using rifle primer in pistol..... but I hear you.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Suz,

As always your posts get me thinking and more often than not doing some research. It turns out that a good proportion of the TP sold in NA is treated with wax, aloe or other products to make it softer, more adsorbent (not a spelling error) and /or decomposable. Could these treatments be the root of your problem? If they are being absorbed by your powder or reacting with it to change it chemically this might explain the failure to burn. An obvious test would be to load up two rounds, one with and the other without TP and after a week or so dump the powder into two separate cans and light it with a match. A difference in combustion rate enough to cause a squib should be obvious.

Also if I hadn't just bought a new 22, scroll down to Sweden on this site and see what I found.

psmilitaria.50megs.com/guns.html

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Interesting thoughts MakyD, don't think I woulda come up with that one in my sleep! Maybe I'll just wrap some powder in TP and see if it does anything to it.

Well that's my baby on the web site, same model, great condition and reasonable price too. On mine the front band has been ground down to eliminate the cleaning rod holder and it makes it easier to take apart. Looks a little funny but I cut the wood off about 6inches or so and put a metal cap on the wood, looks much better. They really have some treasures on that web site and pretty decent prices. The seem to have some really well taken care of guns, not your run of the mill picked through stuff. Don't get me started, I don't need more, but it's nice to look.

Suz

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

I don't know what pressures are being generated by Suz's rounds but if they are low enough then the pistol primer might do the trick.

That is really a backwards way to solve the problem of low loading density in a large case. The appropriate action is to choose a powder made for the task. As I mentioned the H4895 can be reduced a lot and still ignite reliably. If Suz has a faster burning powder it may work too!

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Ok still gettin squibs. Just tried another powder, first round went off great, second was a squib. Went to a collector's gun show today and spoke with an old reloader there and he suggested that I crimp the bullets, which I don't do because I don't have a way to crimp them. The bullets are seated just past the lube groove because the cases are a few mm short and he said the primers are probably pushing the bullet out before the powder has a chance to burn. Primers are proud because there isn't enough pressure when fired to push the case against the bolt face.

This all sounds reasonable to me. How do I crimp them without a crimper die? I can order a taper crimp from Ch4D, but other than that is there another way? I've got a two Lee factory crimp dies for other calibers but they won't come close to allowing the case to go in them. Any ideas?

Suz

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Hmmm, what kind/brand of dies do you have? I thought about every seating die could be used to crimp.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

They usually can be adjusted to crimp. It would take me some experimenting because I haven't crimped anything besides the 357 mag in decades. I think you seat your bullets to the OAL that you want and then pull the seating stem up and adjust the die to crimp. Holding the round up in the crimped position you readjust the seating stem to come down onto the bullet. after that it is automatically crimped as the bullet is seated. you do have to watch that there is a crimp groove otherwise there is danger that the case neck could be compressed.

Somebody with a fresher mind might describe the process better.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

I don't actually have a seating die, just a full length sizing die. I've been using a 7.5x55 Swiss seating die to seat the bullets but it's too big around to do any crimp. I'll have to call Ch4D and see if their seating die does any crimp, because the web site explanation of the die doesn't say anything about a crimp and they have a taper crimp die. Hopefully I don't have to buy that too. This is gettin me ragged tryin to figure it out.

Went over to my black powder shop (good knowledgeable guys) and he tried to pull the bullet out of a live round I had and couldn't budge it, said there's enough neck tension....I dunno anymore, he sort of gave up too.

One other thing is the head space. Rimmed case needs to be against the bolt head and it's a bit shy. Can't measure it but I'm going to try and make some wire rings to shim them. I've got some really small stainless wire at work, (wish I could take the rifle with me) I'll make up some different sizes and see if I can get a good fit. Bailing wire and spit!

I'll keep at it
this thing will
be worth a
million bucks
when I'm done
Suz

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Don't you have an 8x57mm set of dies? I thought you loaded for that too. I get the feeling that I am really missing something here ...

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

I have an 8x58rD full length die (it was expensive so that's all I have). Yes I have 8x57 dies but the brass for this is too fat to fit the 8x57 die. It not only has a taper but is much fatter also. The 7.5x55 Swiss case is also much fatter than the 8mm and I've been using it to seat the bullets but only by adjusting the seat to it's lowest point on the die. Otherwise it runs into the shoulder and won't go in far enough. Thought maybe my 32magnum die would be able to crimp it but it's not gonna fit either.


Suz

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Suz, when you fear head space (and your case travelling up and down your chamber): in S-Africa someone was using an O-ring on the neck of his .303 Br. cases when he shot them the first time. That small O-ring presses the case firmly to the bold. Just think about it and you'll understand it might work (and is not expensive).
Next thing: you put your sizing die this high that only about 80% of the case's neck is reformed. So you're neck-sizing without a neck-sizing-die (also not expensive. Do I sound cheap? Smile )

BTW: at this point I would check my firing pin also, because some dirt inside could make it hit the primer not always at the same strength. And when the firing pin is the cause, nothing you change at the round's level would make any difference...
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:27 am    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

yip Ive heard of the rubber o-ring on .303brit before too...might be worth a go.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Can you use the .32 H&R Mag sizing die to taper crimp?

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: free squibs here Reply with quote

Nope Mike the neck isn't long enough to get in the die that far, it's a thought, but I'm going to ask they people at Ch4D about crimping it. Hard to believe it's so picky but maybe combined with the headspace being variable....the rims just are not consistent in thickness but are mostly not thick enough.

Suz

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