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Beaver or rat??
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kbis
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Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 312
Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

I am hoping you guys can help me try and figure out what I am up against.
On the back of my property I have a small lake with 3 spillways that in the past the beavers have tried to plug up. I have confirmed that they were beavers by shooting them. I now have something back that is trying to plug the spillways.
The question is, are they beavers or nutria rats?
The reason I question if they are nutria rats is that in the past the beavers have turned by back pasture into a logging camp and these guys have only chewed down small trees (1/2 inch dia. max.). Also the beavers used lots of wood and a small amount of mud to plug things up. But these things use lots of mug and weeds and a small amount of twigs. I guess it could be young beavers that have not mastered the art of damn building.
I asked this question on another forum and they seemed to think it was beavers because they chewed trees.
If they are rats, do they have different habits than beavers??
Any neat ideas on how to get rid of either one?
I can't use traps since I have young dogs that are not to smart and will walk into them.
I did have an alligator get into my lake last year. He got rid of the beavers and my large bass and catfish. Plus I was real nervous about fishing with him in there ( the paw print measured 8 inches across).
The only other thing is sitting along the bank with a flood light and a shotgun.
Thanks for the help.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

LOL I had to look up "nutria rats". Around here we have Muskrats which look identical to the nutria pictures I looked up... but I didnt see if they are related or the same animal / different name.

IMO I've been around both and I have not seen Muskrats really try to dam up a river. Not saying maybe some do somewhere... but I used to trap them and found they just like deep slow moving water and build dens into the banks. Typically Muskrats are a pain as they burrow holes through dams and such.

As for traps. You can place them under the water where you see the animals entering and exiting the water. I dont know if your dogs are getting into the water or not... you'd have to make that call. Both muskrats and beaver are more active at night but i've seen plenty during the middle of the day.

IMO I think you have more beavers... but I am amused you have alligators too. I didnt think beavers and alligaters lived in the same regions.


-DallanC
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Sounds like a sci fi movie you got all kinds of things out back it sounds like beavers again to me but i aint no expert. Good luck

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kbis
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Location: East, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Since moving to East Texas, I am amazed at what wild life lives here. Everything from gators to panthers.
Yes gators and beavers do co-exist, but only until the gators find the beavers :).
I found out that the gator came from a lake to the north of us and has returned to his home (I hope).
When I first had the problem with the beavers and the gator, I went to the game warden for advise. Being new to Texas and a native Californian, I was concerned about messing with mother nature and her little creatures and the law.
The game warden was not in, but as we were leaving his office a judge of some kind walked in and asked if he could help. It turns out that beavers and gators are "protected". The judge went on to say that down here we have a saying that is the "3 S's", shoot it, shovel it and shut up.
I explained my problem and he said that if he sees me in Wal-Mart with a new pair of alligator boots that he will probably say " nice pair of boots, smile and walk on". Things are sure different here than So. Calif. and I love it.
I have no idea what my ramblings above have to do with the post, but just a little bit of trivia.
So I guess I am up against beavers again. I did get a shot off last night about 9:30 with my 12 guage. I missed but will try again. Its hard to aim when you are holding a flood light in one hand and a shotgun in the other.
Sorry I got so long winded.
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Blaine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Kbis, It sounds to me like you need a friend to go beaver hunting with (to hold the light) Cool I've had a quite a bit of experience with beavers up here in Maine, and I think you most definitely have beavers. I don't know about Texas, but up here, if you want the best chance at getting a look at them try going out about first light. Beavers are most active at night and into the very early hours of the morning. Tear up their dams the afternoon before and you can bet that they will try to rebuild that night and into the morning. Good luck

Blaine

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

If you get the chance,, load up some 7MM or .30 cal hollow points and if the critter is underwater shoot a bit in front and to the side of them it they are 3' or less deep. The concusion will either dispatch them or knock them out cold and they will float up. Saves the hide if you are intrested (during proper seasons of course).

This trick was shown to me in Alaska by a native and it does work.
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longwalker
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

My vote would be for beaver as well. You would not think about beavers in SD but we have them along with muskrats.

When we lived in Connecticut we had a problem with Beavers. A call to the DNR and the state trapper cam set up live trapes and problem solved. If you contact your local game wardens they likely will have a similar program that will move them for you.

longwalker
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Flint54
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes If you are having a problem with the dreaded "Beavers" I really hope that you won't get into a bind like the land owner in Michigan. I remember reading about this a while back and have been searching for the information to post. I really hope that you all sit down as you read the response. The letters included are not the Web letters but the actual letters sent. I hope that this is not too long of a post but I think everyone will get a good laugh.

Below are some links to help you in looking this incident up if you wish.

www.truthorfiction.com...verdam.htm
www.getipm.com/personal/dam.htm
www.getipm.com/personal/dam3.htm


STATE OF MICHIGAN
Reply to:
GRAND RAPIDS DISTRICT OFFICE
STATE OFFICE BUILDING 6TH FLOOR
350 OTTAWA NW
GRAND RAPIDS MI 49503-2341
JOHN ENGLER, Governor
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
HOLLISTER BUILDING, PO BOX 30473, LANSING MI 48909-7973
INTERNET: www.deq.state.mi us
RUSSELL J. HARDING, Director
December 17, 1997
CERTIFIED

Mr. Ryan DeVries
2088 Dagget
Pierson, MI 49339
Dear Mr. DeVries:
SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023-1 T11N, R10W, Sec. 20, Montcalm Count-,),
It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent
unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity: Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond.
A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files show that no permits have been issued. Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301,. Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated.
The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially, failed during a recent rain event, causing debris dams and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all unauthorized activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the strewn channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 1998. Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff.
Failure to comply with this request, or any further unauthorized activity on the site, may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.
We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
David L. Price
District Representative
Land and Water Management Division
616-356-0269
dlp:bjc
cc: LWMD, Lansing
MontcaImCEA
Pierson Township
Lieutenant Mary C. Sherzer, DNR LED
________________________________________



Reply:
Stephen and Rosalind Tvedten
2530 Hayes Street
Marne, MI 49435-9751
616-677-1261
616-677-1262 Fax
steve @ getipm.com
1/6/98

David L. Price
District Representative
Land and Water Management Division
Grand Rapids District Office
State Office Bldg., 6th Floor
350 Ottawa, N.W.
Grand Rapids, MI 49503-2341
Dear Mr. Price:
Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N, R10W, Sec 20; Montcalm County
Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respond to. You sent out a great deal of carbon copies to a lot of people, but you neglected to include their addresses. You will, therefore, have to send them a copy of my response.
First of all, Mr. Ryan DeVries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan - I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond. While I did not pay for, nor authorize their dam project, I think they would be highly offended you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris". I would like to challenge you to attempt to emulate their dam project any dam time and/or any dam place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no dam way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.
As to your dam request the beavers first must fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity, my first dam question to you is: are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or do you require all dam beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request? If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, please send me completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated. My first concern is - aren't the dam beavers entitled to dam legal representation? The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said dam representation - so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer.
The Department's dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing dam flooding is proof we should leave the dam Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling their dam names. If you want the dam stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition - contact the dam beavers - but if you are going to arrest them (they obviously did not pay any dam attention to your dam letter -- being unable to read English) - be sure you read them their dam Miranda first. As for me, I am not going to cause more dam flooding or dam debris jams by interfering with these dam builders. If you want to hurt these dam beavers - be aware I am sending a copy of your dam letter and this response to PETA. If your dam Department seriously finds all dams of this nature inherently hazardous and truly will not permit their existence in this dam State - I seriously hope you are not selectively enforcing this dam policy - or once again both I and the Spring Pond Beavers will scream prejudice!
In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their dam unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam right than I to live and enjoy Spring Pond. So, as far as I and the beavers are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more dam elevated enforcement action now. Why wait until 1/31/98? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then, and there will be no dam way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.
In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a real environmental quality (health) problem; bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the dam beavers alone. If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!)
Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office.

Sincerely,
Stephen L.Tvedten
xc: PETA


Now add gators into the mix and even the bears will have a problem. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Hahahah thats a great message, very funny.


-DallanC
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Good deal that was great Very Happy . Very good responce thanx for the story!

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kbis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses. Let me try to answer some of them.
My beavers do not seem to be on Maine time. They seem to come out just after sun down or at least the ones in the past did. They are also quick to learn. I would go out after sun down an take a shot at them. The next night they would show up about one hour later, so I adjust my time. This went on until I was sitting out there at 2:00 in the morning. Not good when you have to go to work the next day. So I would not disturb the dams until the weekend and then I could sleep in.
This bunch of beavers are not as pickey as the others. I can dig up the dam and they may be back the next day or they will wait for as long as a 5 days. I have only seen them one time and that was about 9:30 at night.
I did contact the game warden and there are state trappers. The problem is that there is a very large problem here with beavers. They are pluging up culvers under highways and under bridges. So the trappers are all out making the roadways safe. It could be as long as one year before they can get out to my place.
I have ruled out using any kind of rifle or pistol and now use only a 12 ga. shotgun with 00 buck. The first year I went to war with the beavers, I used a Ruger GP 141 (D.A. with a 4 inch barrel) in 357. seemed great, you can hold the flood light in on hand and blast away with the other. The beavers show up, I blast away (missing as usual) and then go to bed. You must understand that my house is east of the lake about 200 yards away with several security lighs around it, so I stand on the west side of the lake so I can see motion on the water without using a flood light (the reflection is not enough light to sight by). The next morning my wife gets out of the and shower and is all upset. It seems that there is a chunk of porcelain missing from the tub. She is thinking that she has used the wrong chemicals on the tub and screwed up the house we just moved into. I look at it and its about the size of a quarter and looks like those decals people put on their trucks to make people think they have been shot at. I am going with the chemicals and its working. This way she is kissing up to me and I don't have to admit that I am the dumb a** that shot the bath tub from 200 yards out. If the mark had not been so nice and round I would have gotten away with it, I had to fess up. Now if someone comes over to see our house, the first stop is the bath room where my wife says this is where dumb a** shot the tub.
I love the letter about the dam builders.
I am going to try this again tonight. I have shoveled out the mud. So hopefully they will be back.
The last time I shot at them , one swam almost 200 yards under water before he surfaced at a pace that I had to jog to keep up. So I have parked my Gator ( John Deer Gator) by the lake and will drive to the end of the lake. I am getting to old and fat the run after beavers :).
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Howdy (lol) This post is cracking me up Very Happy . Is there any way to mount a spot light on the gator you could hard wire it to the battery for your 12 volts and that would leave both hands for shootin Cool . Keep us informed on your progress.

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kbis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

I have tried using the head lights but the land does not allow them to cover the area I need. The ground slops up hill to much. I have also tried lights that mount to your head but that did not work to well. I tried mounting a flash light to the bottom of the barrel but is hard to hold on target with that much weight on the front of the barrel.
I just wish I could get a shot at them on land. It is hard to hit about a 4 inch target (the size of their head sticking out of the water) that is moving even with a shotgun at least for me.
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Ok well what about useing a spot light hard wired to your battery but put the spot light on a stand of some sort that would get you over the hill, you may have to splice some wire to make the cord long enough then just connect the splice when the buggers come out and bang away

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coyotehunter_1
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Beaver or rat?? Reply with quote

Anybody ever see the movie "Caddy Shack"? Smile Wink
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