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Is There Anything Wrong With This picture
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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MacD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

First of all I am sure I have committed some sort of internet crime for posting something I copied from another forum. On the other hand it was posted publically and commented on repeatedly and at length.

This started as a discussion on reloading nickle plated brass. The picture was posted to illustrate the range of nickle plated brass one poster used. A subsequent post suggested that the shiny ring at he base of the 3rd case from the right, just above the belt, indicated a possible casehead separation. I won't go into all the subsequent discussion about case stretch, headpace etc. but IMHO all I see is the normal dulling of the case where the sizing die touches. I didn't check all my brass but I am pretty sure it exhibits the same shiny area near the base and the dulled area above. Am I missing something?

For those who wish to read the whole discussion, here is the link.
forums.outdoorsdirecto...ated-brass



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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

I cannot tell from the picture if there is a problem. I have encountered a similar shiny ring when reloading nickel and brass cases without any problems. So it depends. All the best...
Gil

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dhc4ever
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

Looks very much like the brass I reload after 2 to 3 reloadings.
You would have to either sectionise a case or prob around the inside with a sharp probe to confirm thinning in the web area, otherwise its impossible to tell from an internet photo.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

I agree with Pete on this one. The marks on all the cases are consistent with those that appear with resizing...they are also a sign of case stretching. The only ways to check for this stretching of the case is by cutting a case length ways or making a "tool" that you can feel for the stretch inside the case. I made such a tool from a simple paper clip. I would imagine the ideal would be to use a bore scope.

So, is it case separation happening...it's anybody's guess without further investigation.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

Looks like the reloader could benefit from taking some measurements to determine case head expansion. IMO, The lower part is shiny because it isn't being touched by the chamber or resizing die.

www.huntingnut.com/ind...58&start=0

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

With nickel plated brass if the brass was stretching it would leave a ring that was duller than the nickel on either side of it. As the nickel is pulled it will stretch the grains leaving a dull area. These photos show the normal sizing to base junction that is common to reloads.

That is my untested, uninformed, emotionally stabilized, and humble opinion.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

Quote::
Is There Anything Wrong With This picture

yup..... black background would have looked better !!!
Perhaps a better light source to eliminate the shadowing......

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DallanC
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

Its better to know than not know. Personally having not reloaded any nickle brass, if I saw one like that that seemed out of the norm I would pull the bullet, decap it and carefully cut a cross section with a dremel THEN I could see if it really is a case head separation in progress or if it is just a normal die marking during the resize phase.


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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

Gil Martin wrote:
I cannot tell from the picture if there is a problem. I have encountered a similar shiny ring when reloading nickel and brass cases without any problems. So it depends. All the best...
Gil

Same here. Usually see a little even with only one pass through the sizing die. I use both brass and nickel cases to differentiate between loads or, more commonly, loads for different guns using the same cartridge. Since I only partially size cases for positive headspacing without allowing the shoulders to move forward after initial firing, keeping cases segregated as to firearms is important.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

I have many nickel plated brass for my .30 WCF and my .30-06 and that 3rd round from the right indicates that the case head is much thicker (like all cases) and did not expand when fired and therefore didn't touch the resizing die when resized. You can see the same thing when resizing handgun cases. Especially on magnum cases, both nickel and regular brass cases.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
I have many nickel plated brass for my .30 WCF and my .30-06 and that 3rd round from the right indicates that the case head is much thicker (like all cases) and did not expand when fired and therefore didn't touch the resizing die when resized. You can see the same thing when resizing handgun cases. Especially on magnum cases, both nickel and regular brass cases.

Bushmaster:
That was my thinking too. It only seems logical that the web area of the case would have less expansion.

I use a dental pic to test cases and have only found one that failed. It was a brass case and the ring was distinctive. It wasn't shot from one of my rifles. I only use nickel .45 acp cases but just lucked into 150 Western X .38 special 158 grain lead in nickel cases. This topic and the fact that I may load them to +P got me wondering about them. A question I haven't been able to find an answer to is whether the nickel plating is in addition to the normal brass thickness or not. I wonder does it even matter?

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

all I can add is what a weird line up of cases!!!! they look fine to me but I would paperclip them to make sure, Ive loaded nickle plated 30/06 and man were they HARD.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

I use nickel plated for hunting for both the Winchester and the Browning. I also use nickel plated cases for my self defence ammunition.

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Is There Anything Wrong With This picture Reply with quote

I don't see anything to be concerned about.
When I first started reloading, I saw all kinds of marks that concerned me, then I saw a case that really DID show incipient separation & it's blindingly obvious compared to marks on perfectly good brass.
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