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338 wni mag for white tail
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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JohnX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

I grew up with a 3030 and a borrowed antique single barrel 410. Well, yea and that 1022 was my first new gun. Had the opportunity to shoot a friends 3006 a few times. Didn't care for it since he liked it loaded so hot he had to use a tree to keep it steady. 3030's are nice and of course have their place etched in stone in hunting history. They are fast to get a 2nd shot off if nec. I have never fired a 270 so I can't say and recoil doesn't bother me up to a 225gr 338 win mag with a skeleton stock but I wouldn't want to go beyond that what is it...33 on the recoil scale? Something like that. This 338 is now kicking just under what the 6.5x55 does and that's pretty comfortable. I doubt I'll ever use this 270 anyway for around here as we don't have open area till you go several hundred miles south or west. I bought that rifle out in Arizona while living near Tucson. Had a nephew who could have used it but apparently wasn't interested. Here, shots could be 200-250 yds and that's a stretch for around here. Average might be 75-125yds. This area is the reason I am tuning the 338 way down to get a humane kill. When I get back out west hunting, it and the 6.5 will be there also.

I've read some about Jack. Gotta revisit his bio sometime. Outdoor Life magazine was one of my favorites also back in the day.
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JohnX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

Thought about it later last evening that I didn't mention Walter Bell. While Jack and his wife were very interesting people, I guess I always saw Jack as living the life of luxury with his connection @ writings for the magazine. On the flip side, there was W. Bell. Maybe my having travelled around S. America, meeting locals, learning the customs and easing into their culture so to speak for a number of years, I have a deep appreciation for Walter, his travels, profession both militarily and as a hunter, the areas he covered, people he co-habitated with and the fact he survived the life style he endured. I have lived with locals in rural areas of Bolivia where TV's were battery operated and lights were oil burned. Toilets were a hole in the ground but guess what...everyone had a smile to share and would kill their best chicken for your dinner. Coming from the U.S., it was un-nerving to see people getting on the bus with rifles....terrorists I thought....they were on their way to some farm or whatever to hunt. The locals acted as though all was normal so I found relaxation in their reactions. So I guess where I am going with this is Jack was living a great outdoors life that might have been a business expense while Walter was living in a more rustic way but possibly gaining heads and tails over what Jack was pulling in since ivory was the African gold rush. Not that $ really fit into the difference of the two but he did better than social security could have ever done to keep him & his wife comfortable. Since I saw a Italian company "try" to install 7 traffic lights in the center of town in Santa Cruz but failed, and I was asked if I would try to correct this situation, I realized in some places, your not just a number...you are seen as a person and respected. I know there are a LOT of Bell bashers out there & I can understand their point of view but to be honest, I see more value and rewarding moments dialing in a 243 to laser accuracy than tinkering with a 270. No offense to anyone, just my thoughts & opinions. Even my gun smith doesn't agree with me but shot placement is on top regardless of the caliber.
I'll step down now Confused
John
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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell ??

Not well respected in Africa among PH's and the like ..

Most would call him a poacher ..

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JohnX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

Possibly. I did at one time also from reading the negs about small caliber usage and everything else they could use to hammer him into the ground. But to read in depth of his trek through life from a different perspective, I saw a different Walter. If you have time to check out this condensed version on google or bing, it might give a better understanding of who the man was, did, etc. Follow his story as if you lived his life...what might you have changed?

W.D.M. Bell and His Elephants By James Passmore
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JohnX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

One other thought...what seemingly unspoken fact ever inspired Eleanor to use a 7x57? My "honest" desire to have a 7x57 blueprinted for me was simply it was a step up from the 6.5x55...a go-between the 6.5 and 338.

Gotta admit, reading Jacks accomplishments has me seeing this 270 I have in a different light but it also has me desiring dialing in the 243 more than ever. The 270 is only filling a spot in the gun rack and that's okay with me.
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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

I don't know "why" Eleanor chose a 7x57 , but in my mind , it is very under rated , for the vast majority of hunting in the continental US , the 7x57 is perfect ..

Remembering another writer Bob Hagel ( passed away around 1990 or 1991 ) , who was a big proponent of what he called "efficient cartridges" , and in all his years of hand loading and hunting ( not just hunting paper ) , with much of it on the prairies , with those incredible long shots available , his usual weapon of choice was the little 'ol 7x57 , said it was probably , in hand loaded form , one of the most efficient cartridges around for the majority of the game in the lower 48 ..

We , for years , have been succumbed by the wordsmiths of the day , into thinking you need the newest flashiest belted magnum on the planet for whatever you are hunting ..

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JohnX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

That's what I am setting up to do...roll my own. A bit different from the 60's as there won't be any seeds popping ( damn I miss that ) but distance isn't always the issue. A 7x57 just gets er done as does the 6.5 and in most cases, the 243 at least around here. Heck, a deer isn't much thicker skinned than a dog. Where the 7 would shine would be out West in the Sonoran Desert. Suz can attest to that. Around here, a 243 would easily keep the freezer full...sad but true.

We , for years , have been succumbed by the wordsmiths of the day.....Thank you. That's exactly where the need for magnums came from and the blah blah blah marketing bull. Not to mention $13000.00 Blasers. They out there in Scottsdale won't answer any of my questions as to why a rifle has to carry a price tag like this. I know Scottsdale, lived near there for years, yea right. Expecting some reflux from this but could care less.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

the 7x57 and the .270 are very similar..always have been and always will be.
the 7mm has a better range of projectiles but any advantage ends there.
the two for free surely is a tack driver and will do the job on most deer by the same token I can load my ol smoke pole .270 DOWN to be driving the 100 grn projectile at the same speed and if I was a tinkering type of fella could well get it to group just as good. Im not. I have good accurate 130 grn loads for longer shots and bush bashing 170 grn rn speers for up close n personal.
to each his own. now on that .270...if you are recoil sensitive DONT go out and buy some 150 grn normas or the like, get a good 130 grn load and have some fun. 3 of the last 5 deer Ive shot were with 130 grn rem coreloct factory loads, the other 2?? 150 grn hand load from 7.62x39mm and 52grn load from .223.
as for magnum mania...couldnt give a hoot!!

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

well I have my 458 Lott , and it can be loaded from pipsqueak 45/70 loads to more than you can stand in a day , most of my shooting with it is cast bullets , have a handful of great moulds , but I don't have magnumitis ..

The 130 is the ideal pill for the 270 .. where some one came up with .277 is beyond me ..

The 264 Win Mag is another perfect round that died a slow death ( prolly cause it came out the same time the 7 mag did )

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JohnX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

Okay Elvis & Groovy - As Suz would say, tell ya what - I have 2 boxes of commercial stuff here for the 270. Probably purchased back in the day when I thought I might try this one. One is a 130gr Winchester Power Point. The other is a 130 gr Hornady SST. This rifle is unfired at this time. I am willing to break her by trying these rounds but that will mean she has a home here & will stay till I die. Any rifle I have had in the past was able to leave unfired but once fired, it's mine. So, you tell me...at 130 gr, hows the recoil ? Not that recoil from a caliber like this matters and again, I have a 7x57 so why bother? Give me a good argument, I'm game and want to hear your side. I will be doing my own loads down the road as I am in the process of setting up a loading station as we speak. The commercial loads I have could be a starting point just to introduce myself to the rifle. Sounds crazy but I know you know what I am talking about...the wife who is overseeing what I am typing is looking at me like Î lost a few cookies. Give me some detailed info from your experiences please.
John
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

ok from my old old book of tricks.1968
7x57mm 150grn load from 7 1/2lb rifle =18.10 ft/lbs recoil
.270win 130grn load 8lb rifle 16.88ft/lbs recoil


7x57mm 150grn 3" high at 100yrds=12" hold over at 350yrds
.270 150grn 3" high at 100=12"holdover at 370yrds
.270 130grn 3" high at 100= 12" hold over at 400yrds
as to why bother...well I ask you this..why does your dog lick its...you know what????
because it can!!!!
yes the above could be turned around the other way with good reloads
why own a .223 and not a .222 etc etc
you may like green eggs and ham..you may like them Sam I am.
I like my .270 and it kills deer for me. you can have big meat damage or very little just like the 7x57 its all in the projectile or where you hit animal.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

sorry not only deer
so far she has killed
horse(broken leg)
cows
deer (red,fallow,sika,whitetail)
Thar
chamois
wild pig
goat
sheep
wallaby
duck(back in the bad ol days before I grew up)
hares
rabbits
cats
magpies
ferret
stoat weasel
and last and certainly least a mouse!!!

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

Elvis, I don't agree. I don't like the .270 Win, but I love the 7 mm Mauser. Now you can write down a lot of numbers from your old book tricks, but try to load a .270 Win with a commercial 120 grs jacketed bullet and then do the same with a 175 grs. Both are standard bullets for a 7x57.

You know anyone who used a 7x57, .280 Rem, 7x64 or even a 30-06 and turned his back on these calibers for a .270 Win?

And don't be mistaken: I also have a Mauser with a Timney trigger in that .270 Win caliber, but I cannot remember anymore when I shot it last time...
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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

aw heck I'll throw this into left field , ready ??

the only cartridge based on the 30-06 case that is worth a cuss is the 338-06 , keep yer 30-06 and yer 270 fer cryin out loud ..

the 30-06 is like a two car garage , good selling point but highly over rated ..

at least the two car garage makes for an expensive storage room

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: 338 wni mag for white tail Reply with quote

Groovy, I don't likes those mixed races...
(maybe because we are not allowed to produce them)
And in my neighbourhood when we speak about a .338, everybody knows it's a .338 Lapua Magnum and it's very good possible that they will smile a little bit about your oversized neck Smile

But I understand your thinking and here I have a .458 WM waiting for the summer to do some testing with all the lead bullets I have for my 45-70 and my Parker Hale Volunteer frontloader. One is never too old to learn new tricks...
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