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Max AR15 Hunting Ranges
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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

I created this chart to show maximum hunting ranges of various AR15 calibers. Maximum effective hunting ranges are determined by the velocity needed for proper expansion. I used the Hornady SST because all major AR15 calibers are loaded with the round. A couple things stick out. One the 6.5 Grendel catches the 6.8SPC at just 100 yards. Second the 30AR has a fantastic MV but it has a poor BC and sheds the speed pretty quickly but still has a pretty good hunting range.


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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

Great job mate, I guess it is useful for those that need them.

OTOH, I wonder why expansion is needed for hunting?
Ok they may create larger wound but are they really be the determining factor?

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

XcountryRider, thanks for posting. This certainly will generate discussion. So let's begin.

I have found through terminal performance testing of numerous bullets that bullet expansion is defined by kinetic energy not velocity, e.g., a heavier bullet of the same design will expand/function at a lower velocity. Yes, I know the bullet manufactures list velocity but its kinetic energy. A good example is Nosler's new Accubond Long Range. Nosler claims a 1300 fps minimum opening velocity. This, however, is for their heavy .308 bullets. The 150gr .277 Accubond LR opens at just under 1500 fps which is the same kinetic energy as the heaiver .308 bullets at 1300 fps. Your example uses the same bullet (SST) at basically the same weight which make this comparison a pretty good one. I have only tested the SST down to 940 lb-ft/1880 fps. At this energy level, the SST looked like it would was still functioning with viggor.

www.huntingnut.com/ind...ic&t=10526

It was also interesting the barrel lengths choosen. They weren't the same length. Wouldn't the comparison be better if the comparision was with the same length barrels?

It looks like the 6.8SPC velocity listed is the original chamber that Remington came out with. It has been improved and now called the SPC II. Most 6.8 guys shooting the SST are achieving 2500 to 2550 fps mv with 16" barrels.

Bullet design is another consideration. The 6.8 community is lucky to have so many bullets designed specifical for that round. If the 6.8 was left to hunt with typical .277 bullets that is designed for the .270 Win, the 6.8s actual performance would not be as impressive. The data I've collected so far indicates that most bullets design for the .270 Win take about 30% more energy to function. This is a significant issue for the .300 BO. I was concerned that the 6.5mm hunting bullets are designed for the 6.5mm cartidges with more case capacity.

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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

Lets handle the barrel length first. The 30AR only comes in a 22in barrel and the 300blk is very very hard to find in anything other than a 16in. On the 6.8 SPCII i only used factory ammo for this comparison and it makes no difference if the Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo is fired from a 6.8SPC II or 6.8SPC chambered rifle the velocity is the same. All of the data from 6.8SPCII loaded SST rounds are hand loads if i used hand load data then its anarchy and no one is satisfied i didn't use there particular load because they all get 100fps faster than everyone else. Its more fair to just use factory loads across the board.

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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

Another note the 123gr SST and 123gr Amax was designed for the Grendel.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

Well.... Popcorn

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

XcountryRider wrote:
Another note the 123gr SST and 123gr Amax was designed for the Grendel.

So there is at least 1 hunting bullet designed for the Grendel and its a fragmentation bullet. More options would be nice. With time there will be more.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

XcountryRider wrote:
Lets handle the barrel length first. The 30AR only comes in a 22in barrel and the 300blk is very very hard to find in anything other than a 16in.

Grendels and 6.8s come in 22-inch barrels. That would make that comparison more even.

XcountryRider wrote:
On the 6.8 SPCII i only used factory ammo for this comparison and it makes no difference if the Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo is fired from a 6.8SPC II or 6.8SPC chambered rifle the velocity is the same.

It does make a difference if 6.8 SPCII factory ammo is fired in a 6.8 with a SPCII chamber. Silver State Armory has 6.8 ammo that is loaded for the SPCII.

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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

Silver state does not have SST ammo loaded in for 6.8 SPC or 6.8SPC II i looked. I did run a 110gr Nosler and they actually lost effective hunting range. If you use a 22in barrel for the 6.8SPC which i don't think exists the 30AR and 6.8SPC have about the same effective hunting range. Interestingly they are both are less than a 16in grendel which is right at 400yards. If you can find a 22in 6.8SPC please send the link. If you can find 6.8SPC ammo other than hornady ammo loaded in 120gr SST please send the link.

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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
XcountryRider wrote:
Another note the 123gr SST and 123gr Amax was designed for the Grendel.

So there is at least 1 hunting bullet designed for the Grendel and its a fragmentation bullet. More options would be nice. With time there will be more.

Did you just say the SST was a varmint rount like a vmax?

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

XcountryRider wrote:
I did run a 110gr Nosler and they actually lost effective hunting range.


You missed the earlier point. Velocity doesn't establish a hunting range yet you keep using it. Accubonds and SSTs function in complete different principles.

XcountryRider wrote:
a 22in barrel for the 6.8SPC which i don't think exists ... If you can find a 22in 6.8SPC please send the link.

bisonarmory.com/22-6-8...stainless/

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

OK, let me throw in a comment my brother constantly uses on me;

"I shoot head and neck shots with varmint bullets. As long as I am capable of hitting the animal I can kill it right there."

And he does. Using a 6mm TCU and a 75 grain HP varminter bullet he easily takes Mule deer. They fall DRT.

So the maximum range for hunting has a whole new meaning.

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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
OK, let me throw in a comment my brother constantly uses on me;

"I shoot head and neck shots with varmint bullets. As long as I am capable of hitting the animal I can kill it right there."

And he does. Using a 6mm TCU and a 75 grain HP varminter bullet he easily takes Mule deer. They fall DRT.

So the maximum range for hunting has a whole new meaning.

This is a general guideline individual hunting experiences will very Wink

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XcountryRider
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
XcountryRider wrote:
I did run a 110gr Nosler and they actually lost effective hunting range.


You missed the earlier point. Velocity doesn't establish a hunting range yet you keep using it. Accubonds and SSTs function in complete different principles.

XcountryRider wrote:
a 22in barrel for the 6.8SPC which i don't think exists ... If you can find a 22in 6.8SPC please send the link.

bisonarmory.com/22-6-8...stainless/

Hmm I think its important to check the manufacturers website for recommendations.


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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
OK, let me throw in a comment my brother constantly uses on me;

"I shoot head and neck shots with varmint bullets. As long as I am capable of hitting the animal I can kill it right there."

And he does. Using a 6mm TCU and a 75 grain HP varminter bullet he easily takes Mule deer. They fall DRT.

So the maximum range for hunting has a whole new meaning.
you are so right Paul...loads of guys use them for just that purpose..the .22/250 users fall into two camps neck/head with soft pills or heavier/harder body shooters. the same goes for .223 users.

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