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Newer and Better???
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Handloader
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Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

RPM1031 wrote:
I don't have an '06 but someone is always writing its praises. I've heard of people switching to the 7mm for a flatter shooting gun but that was with factory loads. What are your thoughts?


To realize the full potential of a 7RM (or 7WbyMag or 7STW), barrel lengths of 26" are optimal. These cartridges can point to much success in the hunting fields and owners of rifles so chambered can hunt most N American game given the proper choice of bullets. Its a popular cartridge and continues to do an excellent job.

OTOH, within reasonable hunting ranges (arbitrarily under 350yds) the trajectory advantage is dismissable and no real world advantage can be claimed over the venerable 06. The 06 gives a wider range of bullet choices and bullet weights and comes in rifles often more compact. Rifles chambered for 7RM, in my experience, seldom achieve the chronographed velocities claimed by the proponents of the round. Even moreso, I hasten to add, the 7STW. In fact, bolt action rifles chambered in the far more sensible 280 Remington and handloaded to equivalent pressures of the 7RM, will often equal the 7RM's performance!

The big 7s often have less recoil than an 06 because they develop less energy. So, it would seem the best candidates for chosing a 7RM over an 06 would be women and those that are recoil challenged. Laughing Very Happy
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Coyote_Hunter_
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
List your rifle and the off spring of the .30-06 that you might have...
...

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


Zip, zero, nada!

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Bushmaster
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Joined: Jun 12, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Damn Coyote_Hunter...I feel real sorry about that...One should have at least one Springfield off spring...

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roklok
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

1 M1 Garand 30-06
2 Rem 700 35 Whelen
3 Ruger 77 35 Whelen
4 Rem 700 .270
5 Savage 99 .308
6 Rem 700 .243 (more like a grandchild of the 30-06,offspring of .308)
7 TC encore .358 Win(same as above,kinda like a grandkid)
The only magnums I own are .357 and .44
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

In 1901 it was the 30-01 and in 1903 became the 30-03 and in 1906 a slightly shorter version became what we know it today as the 30-06. It was the U.S. primary battle cartridge from 1906 until about 1952.
The only off spring and incl the 30-06 are off the top of my head:
#1 25-06
#2 270
#3 280 remington
#4 30-06
#5 338-06
#6 35 Whelen
#7 8mm/06 forgot this one at first
Help me out , it feels like i missed one or maybe two.......!!!!!!! Confused

By the way the .308 is not at all related to the 30-06, only thing they have in common is the fact that they are both military cartridges other then that there is no similarity. Anything the .308 could do the 30-06 could do a little better.

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Last edited by 1895ss on Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

I'll bet I'll pay for this, but here goes...The .308 is only a step up from the .30-30...Yup. I'm gonna pay for that statement....

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
I'll bet I'll pay for this, but here goes...The .308 is only a step up from the .30-30...Yup. I'm gonna pay for that statement....

Yes you're right in a sense but,

Really the .308 is about 300 to 400 fps faster then the .30-30 partly because of the blunt bullets nec for the 30-30. They are both .308 caliber just like the 30-06.

There Bushy, did you have to pay very much............. Very Happy

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Not everyone has checked in yet. AND I know they are all .308. Except the .30-30 isn't...In all acuality it is .307. Ppphhhtttt!!!!

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

But .308 bullets pointed or flat nose can and are used in the 30-30........... right Smile

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Yes, but if you use pointed bullets (as if you didn't know) must be chamber loaded and NEVER placed in the tubular magazine...And I do it once in a while...Gives a little more velocity equal to or better then the Hornady soft plastic ones...

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ripper007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

I had allways thought that a person could shoot a pointed bullet threw a 30-30 as long as it was loaded one at a time, and not put in the tube magazine.

like I said, I have allways thought this. but I have never done it.

could some one please clear this up, that knows for sure. lol.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Yes, but if you use pointed bullets (as if you didn't know) must be chamber loaded and NEVER placed in the tubular magazine...And I do it once in a while...Gives a little more velocity equal to or better then the Hornady soft plastic ones...

Yep, my 45-70 is the same way, no pointed bullets in the mag.
My Hornady manual lists all bullets available for the 30-30 as .308 diameter.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Ripper007...I thought I just did...The only reason you are not supposed to fire pointed bullets in a tubular magazined rifle is that pointed bullets can detinate the rest during recoil. However you can fire pointed bullets if you (using your hands) load one at a time into the chamber and NEVER put one or two in the tubular magazine.

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I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

Yes I know 1895ss, but it was drilled for .307 and not .308. BUT it will use the .308 bullet without any problem. You really don't have much of a choice anymore as they don't make a .307 bullet. Which is probably good because my ol' Jack handle is rather old and the .308 bullet probably fits better now...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
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roklok
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Newer and Better??? Reply with quote

The .308 has everything to do with the 30-06!! It is simply a shorter version. The specs are identical except the case is shorter. In fact the US military modified some M1 Garands originally chambered for the '06 to use the .308 or 7.62 NATO by simply putting a block in front of magazine to allow for the shorter cartridges and cementing an adapter in chamber to make chamber about half an inch shorter.Didnt even have to rebarrel! The .308 is closer to the '06 in performance than a lot of people believe,only about 90-100 fps difference in factory loads.And bullet nose profile has nothing to do with muzzle velocity,downrange performance yes,not muzzle velocity.From remington specs for 150 grain bullet:30-30 2390 fps,.308 2820 fps,30-06 2910 fps.
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