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Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Well, I was out at the range shooting in 30 mph gusty winds when it dawned on me that a heavier barrel would really benifit me under these conditions. I was shooting a small bore silhouette match with two other shooters and I had a real hard time keeping the gun on target. I only toppled 12 of 40 targets - got first place but I was pretty disgusted with not being able to get a steady shot.
Will just adding weight to the stock help steady it or should I go with a new, heavier, barrel? If I go with a heavier barrel I might try a faster twist than the 1 in 16 I have now. The rifle is accurate so there is really nothing "wrong" with the barrel - it is just extremely light.
what do you guys think?

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

HHHhhmmmmm....wind is blowing you around, it's (in sailor's terms) "windage" from the barrel stickin out there in the wind. Reduce the windage if you were a sailor, so small profile is the cure, but you can't get a smaller profiled barrel so i'd go with putting some weight on the appendage to dampen the effects of the gusty wind. A heavier barrel might do, but it's bigger windage surface......well....try adding weights first and see what happens, no need to sacrifice an accurate barrel for an unproven one.


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MacD
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Not seeing how a heavier barrel will improve accuracy in windy conditions but I am open to learning the relationship. Bullet weight and to a lesser extent velocity are in my opinion the key factors. Some long range shooters use flags (telltalis) set at 50 yard intervals to help judge wind direction and speed and adjust POA accordingly. I leave the lower corner of my targets on the windward side free. This helps me decide when to squeeze off a shot in gustry conditions.

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Last edited by MacD on Fri May 24, 2013 4:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

let me put it thisaways....
one evening a few years back a group of us were out spotlighting bunnies in the McKenzie basin tring for head shots where possible or body if not, shooting and recovering for pet food as a club fundraiser, all went well till the wind came up, 3 of the guys with us gave up as they couldnt "read" it. I was still quite happily head shooting at 50 yrds not too much bother, one of the guys asked how much windage, well to tell the truth about 6"hold over and the same out to the right. that norwest wind was fair howling. rifle was a plain jane norinco bolt action. no I dont think a heavier barrel will be an advantage if what you have shoots straight. or to put it another way.. if it aint broke dont try to fix it. adding weight MAY help your hold but may be HARDER to keep on target for any length of time more fatigue of muscles like..

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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Okay if you mean wind induced sway both a heavier barrel and a benchrest profile forearm will help. So will a looser hold and underfilled sandbag. My experience is that more of the sway is actually imparted by unconsious body movements as we automatically maintain balance.

A shooting sling for all freehand positions is a key solution to rifle steadines issues.

For field use I swear by a bipod shooting rest that adjusts from sitting to standing positions. With my back against a stationary object and the rifle resting in the bipod I am almost as steady as on a bench with bags.

I tip my hat to Elvis for being able to use holdoff to deal with windy conditions. This requires both timing and good ranging skills. It also needs a crisp trigger with light pull as the tendency is to jerk the trigger to take advantage of momentary lulls.

Forgive me if I am reciting things you already know. Since the forums are read by many less experienced shooters I took the opportunity to be a bit more detailed.

One final comment. At the range where I shoot we are less than two kilometers from the ocean. On warm days the winds can veer unexpectedly all over the compass. After many frustrating sessions of this I found the perfect solution. Go home and drink beer.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

I agree with Mac and Elvis. More movement is introduced by the wind moving your body than the rifle. Heavy barrels are great for steadying your aim only because they minimize your own involuntary arm and body movements during normal conditions. Once the wind starts moving your body, the heavier barrel could also make it harder to bring the sights back on target.

Heavy barrels can be great for accuracy under normal conditions, but they can also make carrying the rifle for fun a pain. It isn't nearly as enjoyable to walk a fence line carrying my Ruger 10/22 with a target scope, heavy laminated stock and .920" barrel as it was when it was a neat, light little carbine!

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Well that's funny....I automatically assumed (when he said gusty 30mph winds) he was talking about the wind against the barrel of his rifle, pushing it around. Especially when he also said accruacy was not an issue. In other words why would you assume a heavier barrel in windy conditions would make a difference? Maybe it's me that needs the beer? A heavier bullet may make a diff. but a heavier barrel? I haven't worn sunglasses to hide myself in quite a few years and that was because I was under the impression that if someone recognized my face, I'd be in trouble. Fact is....a person can recognize you from the back, if they truly know you. What did I do (to make me wanna hide my face?) to wanna look so camo and blend in like the woodwork? Well aren't you the nosey one? Ok I was messing around with a married man, whose wife was a friend of mine. He did something so stupid to alarm his wife into finding out what was going on, that I needed to turn into a turist on the reservation so she wouldn't recognize me. Lucky for me it didn't bother her so much, that her husband was seeking outside fun, and it relieved her of her marital duties enough that she enjoyed the time off. Hhhmmmmnnn.......I brought this up because it's always been so entertaining here on the NUT side of life, to read the interpretations of dialogue, and I wanted an easy way to illustrate the effects camo can have, both visually and rhetorically. All this entertainment for free! Comming from a person who grew up kicking dirt into the air in the hope that it might make it rain, the sophistication it takes to get this entertainment, from all over the globe, has taken entertainment to a new level. Cheers! and Beers all around!




in other
words
you guys
crack me up

Suz

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

The shooting must be done "off-hand" no slings allowed.
Yes, the wind is blowing ME around making it hard to keep the gun on target.
I am using 22 rf ammo - 40 grain bullets in Remington "green box" ammo at 1200 fps +/- 20 (chronographed at 3 yards)
22 RF is the only ammo allowed.

So the concensus is that a heavier barrel will not help?

If that is the case what can I do (no support is allowed, even from your body) to dampen or eliminate this wind movement?
Or is it something that there just is no cure for?

Whether I have been hunting or plinking or target shooting I have always been able to find a rest point but this sport doesn't allow it. Is there a way to keep the wind from moving my body so much or??

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Suz,
I thought that the wind was pushing the barrel around too but it was probably me being pushed around. So maybe I need to get real skinny and real heavy or maybe do like most ofthe shooters did and go home and have a drink... well at least I was still the best shot there - that is my on-going position since I started doing this a month ago. I seem to come in first even when I'm disgusted with my shooting.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Any one who has been in the infantry has done the thousand yard runup. You know when you start at the thousand yard berm and run up stopping every 100 yards to shoot 5 rounds and then advance to the next until you walk up from 50 emptying a whole mag into the stops. Your panting so hard that a steady hold is not possible. The trick is to time your shot so your sights are just reaching your POA when the rifle fires. There is a name for this technique but I can't remember it. It took a lot of practise and familiarity with your rifle's trigger characteristics to get good at it. You are probabley using this technique now and obviously doing better than others by the sounds of it.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Yeah that's it, you need a really easy trigger and some good timing. Also it might help to take some blood pressure pills, the ones that slow your heart down. Works fer me! Like MacD says, time your trigger pull with the sights' target aquisition. You could practice at home dry firing, by standing still and slowly twisting (at the waist) around to a target. At the range you know where the target is, but at home you can make the target appear sort of random and get your timing tuned. Then at the range when you're all tuned up, just drop the barrel down to the target or swing over to it from the side and the moment things line up click it. Gotta be consistant to make it happen. I think I'm gonna try that and see how easy/hard it is. Sounds like a good practice for those quick deer at short range situations I keep getting into. Moving to the target could be a good simulation of the wind blowing you and after a while of getting used to the moving barrel, the wind won't be so much of a problem, it'll be just like moving over to the target. If the wind blows you off course, don't fire, just try again, always moving till the sights line up.


Gota BS
in BS
Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

aim small, miss small.
yip the art of shooting as your sights come to bear is an old old old school skill. picture a ship being tossed by the rollers and a slow match fuse aiming at an equally moving target. even when shooting on the bench you should be shooting on a half out breath, eg breath in sights go up, out and they go down, trick being to get your movement as small as possible and TIMING is everything. maybe a shotgun type stance? feet shoulder width apart left foot forward will give you maximum stability your "fighting stance"so to speak.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Conclusion:
PaulS, you have to eat more or put some extra weight in your booths,
and maybe try some clothing with sizes a little too small.
The added weight will slower your moves and the small clothes will make you catch lesser wind.
Going down on your knees would also create a smaller surface available to the wind and you still could shoot off-handed... you didn't mention you have to stand up to shoot off-hand...

OR you could wait till about 9 PM when most of the days the wind will go down... (in our part of the world)

you see: still lots of things to investigate Smile
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

NOBODY MENTION LYCRA..... Haha Haha Haha

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:46 am    Post subject: Re: Heavier barrel fo my 22 RF Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
NOBODY MENTION LYCRA..... Haha Haha Haha


I can see it... it's a very small step from "Paul-S" to "Paul-SM"


sorry, but I already kept my mouth when Suz was talking about the fact that the size of the barrel doesn't matter...


... when you have my age and you're not even allowed anymore to laugh with such things... Smile
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