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Put you guys to work
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Suzanne
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Joined: Jun 27, 2009
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Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

I took the Marlin out today and put 5rnds of 300grn JHP and 5rnds of 405grn JSP. What a whumper! I put a Pachmeyer recoil pad on it (glad I did) but I might need something for my jaw...had to poooch my cheek out on the wood to keep from clashing my teeth. On the 300grn I used IMR 3031 @ 53.6grns and it seems like powerful enought for me. The 405grn I used same powder @ 50grns, (Pumpkin's recipe) it's a bit much, I might tone it down some. My book says that's about 1800 ft/s for the 400grn.

Who knows what it does target accuracy wise, I didn't have time to set up anything other than a pair of bricks someone left out there. My scope is only bore sighted and I didn't hit the bricks but made them fly like paper cups when I hit the dirt below them. Man it really makes a trench in the dirt. My 50cal black powder rifle is a wimp compared to this thing. What a cannon.... totally fun, can't wait to get it on target. I was just seein what it was like to shoot, now I need to spend some time. Rain has to quit too.

There's a black powder gun shop here that sold me some 385grn RN lead I wanna try also. They're made for black powder but I can go either way, just change lube. Sounds like fun to me! Getting a Lee Sizer kit sometime next week, don't know why the sizer kit is .457 instead of .458, but I guess I can hone it out a bit with some fine grit sand paper. Is the bullet supposed to obturate? it seems that's a bit much, but Lee doesn't offer .458 and these lead bullets measure about .459. Oh well sumptin more ta play wit anyhoo.

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Elvis
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

woohoo those deer wont be safe hiding behind the scrubbery with you carrying that cannon.
a suggestion
grab the biggest cardboard box you can find (t.v. box be great) and use it for a backing. that way you will be"on the paper" straight away.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Suz, why spend money on a sizer? Just compare sized and non-sized in the 45-70 and you probably put that sizer away till you get a .45 muzzleloader with a fast twist...
and it seems that Spring is going to start here tomorow, so it's about time to get blacky out of the spiderrags... I still have to teach some friends on how to get adicted to sulfersmoke.
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

OOoooo interesting prose BatMan!

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

What I would do is "slug" the barrel and measure the bullet. Then you know for sure what size the barrel is and can order a sizer if needed.

Don't hone nothing out till you shoot the gun for accuracy!

The ideal size for a lead cast bullet is .001 to .002 over grooves

Groove on Suz.

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diesel
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

just today loaded a box for my friends Uberti trapdoor Springfield carbine. 300 gr jhp, 43 gr H4198, 210 Fed primers. vel about 1650 FPS Gander Mountain had them at $49.99 a box. reloading cost was about $12.00. couldn't shoot to many factorys at $2.50 a pop. HUG
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Well I tried the cast bullets, some had sprue bumps on the bottom of them and I weighed them, they were all over the place in weight. Shot that way too. I only loaded and shot 5 of them. For some reason I got a lot of smoke, maybe the liquid ALOX? I'll try out some better quality cast bullets next time.

Then I shot 20 300grn JSP to sight in the scope at 50yds. Not too pleased with the accuracy. I didn't resize the cases (big mistake) and had troubles loading the bullets and crimping them. Pumpkin set me straight on what I was doin wrong, thanks Pumpy! Below is my sight-in target. I shot the middle while adjusting the scope then I shot the upper right, then upper left (still adjusting slightly) then the bottom right, not much improvement.

I'll have to size the cases and see if it improves the groups, but the load was IMR 4198 using 41gr. which should be around 1800fps. The orange squares are one inch sq.


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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Sad Suz I've shot the 300 gr factory stuff,and my marlin did'nt like them-I believe maybe too light for the gun/riflings.I have had good luck with the 350 gr tho!I have also made some homegrown stuff with 400s ,and 405s,cast and lubed with the cast lube from resizing die(hard wax)-and had good luck.I shoot with iron sights and can't say about group size at over 100 yds-but have had 4" groups at 100yds consistantly!

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Well I have 325gn Hornady rubber nosed things and some 405gn JSP so maybe next outing I'll load up some 405s and see how they do. First time I shot 405grn off-hand, they kicked my butt. My Lead Sled will tame it somewhat. So far I think it's pretty poor from bench at 50yds, but maybe I just need to find the right combination.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Suz, is the barrel micro grooved?
if it is, try to use oversized cast boolits maybe a .459 or .460, or try a little faster powder to ensure that the projectile engraves well and actually fill the rifling to get consistent twist rather than skidding along the barrel grooves..

LLA (lee liquid alox) can be modified a little by adding JPW and mineral spirit.
45/45/10 mixture of Johnson's Paste Wax (JPW), Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) and odorless mineral spirits (MS). The result is pretty awesome easy to use quick drying lube.
Here is a link to a somewhat lengthly discussion of it (663 responses so far)
castboolits.gunloads.c...-Mess-Free

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Not micro-grooved, I'll have to do some experimenting with the cast boolits, thanks for the alox recipe, it seems a bit bothersome to wait for it to dry alright.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Mixing in a few drops of methylated spirit after fully coating the boolits would freeze LLA instantly.

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The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

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gelandangan.weebly.com/
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

What a great web forum Geland. I was browsing around there and ended up researching all sorts of other stuff too. Also I was wondering if you use a filler in your reduced loads and what do you use?(if you do) I have some cast boolits that are Lyman mold #457124 (I think) and need a gas check. Found a guy on E-BAY that has some aluminum gas checks but they're too small. He says they'll fit a .45 cal with a gas check shank that measures .426 or smaller and mine measures .436 so is there Lyman gas checks? I can't find any, only Hornady. I'm new to cast boolits (can you tell?) I wrote to the EBAY seller and he said "just send me 6 boolits and I'll custom fit them" No thanks, they're not good cast boolits they're kinda shoddy ones and I don't think it's worth it to send them across the country to have them fitted. What about wax gas checks? I have some nice very thin 1.5mm wax sheets at work that I could use. Have you any experiance with wax gas checks?

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Aloysius told me about wax sheets gas checks, I made some using paper coaster I pinch from nearby pub, immerse it in molten candle and then puch them out to size.
Nah, I dont reckon I like them at all..

If you are in the market for gaschecks, I suggest you contact "BLAMMER" on the forum to buy GATOR checks, they are great checks and not too costly.

My slow loads are all plain based loads, no gascheck involved or needed since they are travelling right at 1200 fps.
I made my own "Speed Green - LOTAK" lube (mix of 2:2:1 synthetic 2 stroke oil, beeswax and Carnauba wax) for my lubrisizer, the lube is great for up to 2000fps IMHO.

Anyhow,
I use 32.3gn of AR2206H on my 500gn NOE cast boolit (LD almost 80%) and this give me 1200 fps on the dot from my 32 inch barrel.
This groups at about 1 inch in 100 meters or about 2 inch in 200 meters (bench rested)
It is a very mild load with about 1800 foot pound energy at the muzzle.

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Aloysius
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Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Geland, I always use these waxed beercards when shooting conicals in my .45 muzzle loaders. It's even in the description of my Parker Hale Volunteer, they even sell a punch and a special sizer for the bullets together with the rifle.
I think when you fill up the case of a 45-70 with blackpowder or Pyrodex, put such a waxed card on top and push a lead bullet in, it might be good stuff. But maybe not for a lever action because that rather hard to clean afterwards.

And filler material: I never use it. I do the lift-barrel-and-tap-before-shooting. Works for me.
But for blackpowder the bullet must always rest on the powder!
A friend uses a kind of grease-pill beneath the bullet in his 45-120. He puts a waxed card on top of the BP, then about 0,5 cm bullet grease and then the bullet. He says he has to do this to be able to shoot a complete match (30 shots) without cleaning his rifle between shots. According to him that grease is spread inside the barrel each shot and keeps the dirt soft and easely removable with the next shot.
I don't think he can prove his theory, but it seems to work for him.

Suz, in my opinion you only need a GC when you want higher velocities. But higher velocity doesn't increase accuraty with a lead bullet... keep your velocity around the speed of sound and you will get nice groups (and gentle kickings Smile )
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