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straight wall brass question
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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tlo7mm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

I was curious as I am new to the straight wall brass club, do you guys trim your brass and prime them before running them through the expander die or do you trim then run them through the expandinder die and then prime? Also since I am running the brass through the expander die, is it necessary to chamfer/ream the necks or not?

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

I trim mine after resizing. Then I bell them just enough that they don't shave the bullet to prevent neck cracks due to over-working the necks.

I only clean off any burrs on the brass - no need to chamfer or ream the necks at all. If you are using an autoloading pistol then you only want to make the outside edge of the brass clean with no burrs - never remove any native material because in most cases the cartridge headspaces on the neck.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

Personally I size, then expand, then trim and deburr (if I'm going to) and then prime. I usually trim and deburr all new brass. For straight walled brass I believe that's a one time thing. It makes for more consistent crimps and, for those cases that headspace on the case mouth, more consistent head spacing.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

When I loaded straight wall pistols cases my regime was the same as both Paul and Punkin's. Only difference was my sizing die also had the expander in it, so it was really all one action. I rarely trimmed because the cases didn't seem to stretch, although I was loading only target loads.

Keep an eye on your cases mate and trim etc as necessary...and you will only need to deburr after trimming, and then only lightly. The thing I did more often than trimming was annealing the cases, and again, that was only rarely and when I felt it was needed to increase case life.

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tlo7mm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly keep all of this in mind when prepping and reloading for my 40sw.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

It all depends on the specific trimmer you are using. The trim pilots on mine are sized to center cases that have been sized but not "belled". Remember that cases that headspace on the mouth are more critical as to trimming than rimmed cases, but each need to be kept to a uniform length for function and accuracy. Length of case also affects the crimping of cartridges as well, which means that rimmed cartridges can have varying degrees of crimp if not kept uniform while "rimless" cases will have varying headspace issues if not uniform.

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

1. I have NEVER found the need to trim straight walled cartridges.

2. If you don't trim, you don't have to deburr.

Straight walled brass doesn't stretch much at least in part because the guns they're shot in are of the lowish pressure sort. Even in high pressure straight walled cartridges, the brass will fail in some way before there is the need to trim.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

1. Clean (tumble)
2. Resize/decap
3. Trim if needed. Revolver cases need to be within +/- .002 of each other to insure an even crimp. (Hell...I even trim .45 ACP cases because my Colt 1911 prefers cases at .90).
4. Deburr and tumble for one hour.
5. Clean primer pockets and prime cases.
6. Expand (as needed) and load according to the press and die system at your bench.

This is the same procedure for new brass.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

Note that I'm not saying that you should trim because the cases stretch. I'm saying that you should trim new brass once to make them all an even length. I just measured about a dozen once-fired .38 Special cases that a friend gave me. The lengths varied from 1.143" to 1.149". To me that variation would lead to inconsistent crimps so I'll trim them all.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

The routine that I have developed over the years includes running each case through the trimmer. My pistol cases rarely remove metal and my rifle cases go for a few loadings before the case mouths get "polished" by the trimmer.
For me it is just part of the process that keeps my loads honest.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

I clean the burrs off new cases and spin the case on a flat piece of wet/dry paper to dull the sharp edges. Priming comes next and flaring with a powder through lee expander die. A taper crimp if desired on rimless pistol and factory crimp die for rimmed pistol and rifle. Fired cases for pistol are deprimed, cleaned and reloaded without trimming. If they are range pickings I will use either a revolver cylinder or pistol barrel to visually check that rimless cases are within the length tolerances. I believe there is a post on this on this site. Rifle cases are checked for length by sampling each batch after depriming. (I keep cases in seperated batches.) Any case that is trimmed gets the new case treatment and then reloaded as per normal.

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger wrote:
Note that I'm not saying that you should trim because the cases stretch. I'm saying that you should trim new brass once to make them all an even length. I just measured about a dozen once-fired .38 Special cases that a friend gave me. The lengths varied from 1.143" to 1.149". To me that variation would lead to inconsistent crimps so I'll trim them all.

You're talking 6 thousandths of an inch difference. I'll bet that the cases of loaded factory ammunition vary that much AND that you will never be able to tell the difference on paper between ammo made with trimmed vs untrimmed cases.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

You are probably right Grumulkin, but I will. I use "great" care in assembling my ammunition. I use a single stage and a turret press to load both rifle and handgun ammunition. The better quality that I can produce the better I feel about my end product. Some of my friends say I'm anal about it, but I have watched as they have had misfires and squibs. I have had neither.

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

I'm anal about it as well and I also use a single stage and turret press for all my reloading. With the exception of a few powders that meter exceptionally well, all of my reloads have individually weighed powder charges as well. That said, I prefer to expend my time and energy in things that make a difference in quality or accuracy and I don't think trimming straight walled cartridge cases is one of those.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: straight wall brass question Reply with quote

Yup...I weigh EVERY powder charge, I clean primer pockets on all cases and I trim revolver, rifle and .45 ACP cases.

It works for me. But to each his own.

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