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Put you guys to work
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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Very Happy Suz-marlin makes/or used to make a 45-70 "cowby rifle"with the octagon barrel and it's a bit longer than the others with a longer magazine too.It might take the recoil a bit better and be a little more forgiving to the shooter,and shoot a bit farther too!I know-too much info!

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

so is the 45/70 attractive cause its different? or do you just want a bigger hole in the end of your barrel???
8mm/06 gives a wee tad more and there will be other bigger still that will use that standard case just necked up...

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Elvis I just thought it would be fun to use a black powder cartridge and the 45-70's historical significance and it's convertibility to smokeless powder is appealing also. That's where you have to be careful with the Marlins because of the micro-groove rifling on the older ones. The newer ones have Ballard type grooving and can hold on to a lead bullet.

I'm not going to try and convert the 30-06, it's too impractical and I'll instead trade it in. Already have a 8mm cartridge and it shoots nice tight groups. Never got the 30-06 to do that, but then there are a bazillion combinations of bullets and powder to try. Tired of it I guess.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

you could go in the other direction and try to find a 32/20 or something along those lines so you could tootoo with black powder and still have a neat wee plinking gun for small game but ok for small deer too if need be.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
That's where you have to be careful with the Marlins because of the micro-groove rifling on the older ones. The newer ones have Ballard type grooving and can hold on to a lead bullet.

This is one of the most overblown BS in books & the internet, I currently have 2 Marlin 336 30/30 jack handles and the trick is when you size cast bullets for the microgroove, you have to size it 001" smaller than the throat.

Both of my rifles have throats that measure .312"-.311" and I size the cast bullets at .310" for these guns. Doing this minimizes slippage of the bullet and fills up the grooves nicely and can send cast bullets down range with accuracy equal to jacketed bullets.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

45/70. Yeah!
My favorite caliber!
I use it for sniping wabbits to pigging.
I got 4 custom molds for its boolits, from 250 grains to 525 grains.
I shoot it out of H&R Buffalo Classic, absolutely delightful rifle to use.

Suz, you would love a 4570
Nothing gives more satisfaction than a head shot wabbit with a gun that could take a buffalo.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

IMO the .45-70 beats the .444 hands down. I looked hard at both when I first got interested in a big bore lever gun back in the '80s. The .45-70 pretty much starts off where the .444 runs out of juice.


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BigBlue
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

I like 'em both!
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Maybe if they made a 10 or 12 pound 45-70 I would attempt to shoot one...

maybe not.

I am even sensitive to the 165 grain load from my 03A3 and it weighs 10 pounds. The same is true of my 358 Win. model 700 with 180 grain bullets and it was custom made to weigh 10 pounds.

I don't mind carrying the weight but that recoil gets to me real fast.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Paul, I am very recoil sensitive.
Thus almost all my shooting are limited to subsonics.
My 45/70 shoots 500 grain pills out at 1200 fps, this give very little recoil.

You can add a mercury stick or lead bar on the stock to further reduce the recoil.
A butt pad would reduce it even more.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

I hear great things about limbsaver recoil pads, they may be just the ticket Paul.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Ok I'm convinced!!!!
Was in Cabela's today and they had 45-70 brass and bullets, I almost grabbed em. Those bullets are huge nasty things, big as my thumb. Didn't see any dies. Maybe I should go back and scarf up some brass, the bullets were 400gr or more shheeeeshhhhhh, I dunno, that's scary. Not too sure about their used guns, they had a couple old Winchesters but the price was very high and who knows, I don't think they go over the guns at all, they just trade and put them on the shelf.

I spoke with my gunsmith a few months ago and he was frantically busy with guns bought from Cabelas that needed all kinds of work to get them going. He's one of those guys that doesn't like to work all that hard. He's older and tired I guess, anyway he was pissed at what he was finding in those old rifles, said they shouldn't be selling broken guns to people.

Pumpkin that looks like what I'm lookin at getting, the classic 1895, not a bad price either and a 22inch bbl. Whatcha got for a scope on it?

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

Suz, its a Bushnell Elite 3200, 1.5-to-4.5x (?) w/ the Firefly reticle. The Firefly will glow in the dark if you "charge" it by shining a light into the scope.

I've got a Limbsaver recoil pad on mine and it makes a LARGE difference. "Factory level" loads are fun to shoot and "Marlin loads" are pretty tolerable. A 400 grain jacketed soft point over 50.0 grains of IMR 3031 will give you around 1600 ft/sec and 1.5" groups at 100 yards.

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

8-OSuz-if you get a new 1895 new in the box-just to let you know what kind of pressures it can hold.....It's the same action as the 450 marlin!And the 450 marlin has the same case as a 45-70-EXCEPT that marlin put a belted case on it so it could not be used in a 45-70 OLDER action with the higher pressure loads.I guess the metallurgy of the earlier ones was not a tough as today!I have discussed this at length with knowledgeable gunsmiths!Of course marlin would never tell you this!

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Put you guys to work Reply with quote

On my recoil sensitivity. I have limb-savers on both my big guns andthey weigh 10 pounds so adding a recoil absorbing device might make a small difference but until my back gets better - and it is getting better - I will just stick to reduced loads using H4895. They aren't sub-sonic but they are close. I intend to work the loads up slowly over time so I don't pick up a flinch and then once I get the loads back up to close to "regular" velocities I will switch back to the powders I used to use.

I have the 3006 and 358 win. because I believe that there is no such thing as "too much" gun but I also want the range that they are capable of with a 2 inch line-of-sight point blank range. That means that both guns are limited to about 200 yards within that point blank range. When I can get back into reading the mirage I will use a range finder and dope card to shoot farther when I need to but I don't have any problems (haven't in the past) keeping my groups close to 1/2 MOA. I just have to limit my shooting so that when the wind is blowing I can still hit my point of aim.
I confess to being an accuracy fanatic. It's the only fault I admit to.

On another note, I went to the range to try out some of the new barrels I got for my contender and I really enjoyed shooting the 223 from a 14 inch barrel. The muzzle blast is terrible but no recoil to speak of. Even though the sights were about 7 inches low at 25 yards I still shot a dime size group off-hand. I had a chance to shoot my 357 with real magnum loads for the first time in a long time and cloverleafed a five shot group also off-hand. I am improving and when I get back to "normal" I intend to do a lot of shooting.

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