HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: pliers
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12490

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 48
BOT: 4
Total: 52
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Photo Albums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Photo Albums
16: Forums
17: Photo Albums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Photo Albums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Photo Albums
46: Forums
47: Photo Albums
48: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 304
 Pictures: 2342
  · Views: 307799
  · Votes: 1302
  · Comments: 85
 

Support our Advertisers

The F-35 JSF?
Discussions run-amok, innane banter it all goes here
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Spam-O-Rama

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

I have my opinion, when I was younger reading about it when it was just awarded to Lockheed from the likes of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics I was very interested in it, but my opinion of it in the decade since has fallen to below ground level.

Any ways, as our Australian members know, outside of the US there is quite a bit of controversy on the fighter. Especially here in Canada as its just been put on hold following KPMG's report and the backlash of the last year or so due to the costs of the program.

I had been arguing about it recently on another web forum, and summarized the points I made, the ones that are the most critical, and the ones that can be proven, and not arguing over non-existent glossy sales brochure specifications that Lockheed keeps talking about.

www.northerndtool.com/canadian-f35

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3267
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

Guess it bothers you.... Popcorn

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7150
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

Dimitri, I can tell you put a lot of effort into this write-up. However, there are several points that are incorrect and others that are outdated. Also, why would Canada want more F-18s when the original fleet served your country so poorly?

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

The original CF-18's served Canada poorly? I've never heard a Canadian say that. Wink

Only time there were "issues" with the CF-18 is Kosovo, and the same reason it has had such a high attrition rate was due to a decade of government cutbacks in spending leading to the RCAF into cannibalizing parts from one plane to keep another one flying.

The US Navy updated their original F/A-18's in the mid-90's and were prepared for Kosovo, Canada didn't do it till a decade later, and only till after Kosovo showed that the fighters were ill prepared for it.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7150
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

The CF-18s were plaqued with structural cracks and were severly restricted in order to preserve airframe life. Canadian pilots could not fly them in a tactical manuer so the planes would last long enough to be replaced.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2263
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
The CF-18s were plaqued with structural cracks and were severly restricted in order to preserve airframe life. Canadian pilots could not fly them in a tactical manuer so the planes would last long enough to be replaced.

Another quality item from the USA.......
The US navy and RAAF also suffered the same issues, the canuks werent alone.
The Canadians and aussies have similar issues due to a small fleet that is now over 25 years old and approaching the limit on unmodified airframe hours.
The US navies answer was buy the F18 e/f, retire the F18 A/B and leave the C/D models to the USMC.
Canada and Australias answer was to implement a center barrel replacement program on some airframes and order the F35.

Now that the F35 looks like being at least 3 to 5 years late for the 1st tranche of aircraft things are getting a bit tight.
Our answer was to retire the F111 and order 24 F18 F's as an interim fighter/bomber, now that further delays and cost rises have occurred we'll probably end up getting more F18 f's, upgrading some to Growler configuration and delaying and reducing our F35 order (was going to be 100 units).
So now we wait while this sorry saga plays out.
Why is it we could develop the technologies to go to the moon in less than 10 years, but it now takes 20 to get an operational fighter in the air?

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

slimjim,

All aircraft more or less get cracks.

Heck even the F-35 is already showing sings of cracks, all three variants with the F-35B showing cracks at 1/5th its full life time (1500 hours verses 8000 hours).

dhc4ever,

Take a look at the F-22? It's Oxygen system still has to be fixed. Shocked

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 3408
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

Maybe someone ought to take the next step and by-pass the JSF and start building RPAs with true fighter/attack technology.
The remotely piloted aircraft could be smaller, lighter, more maneuverable and carry more fire-power than an aircraft large enough to carry a man and all the systems to protect him.
Build in the current stealth technology and you have air superiority on a budget that even third world countries could afford.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2263
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Maybe someone ought to take the next step and by-pass the JSF and start building RPAs with true fighter/attack technology.
The remotely piloted aircraft could be smaller, lighter, more maneuverable and carry more fire-power than an aircraft large enough to carry a man and all the systems to protect him.
Build in the current stealth technology and you have air superiority on a budget that even third world countries could afford.

Paul,
its already in the pipeline.
The F22 and F35 will probably be the last manned fighter the west produces.
As much as I hate wikipedia, this has a semi informative burst on the subject.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-45

Cheers.

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2263
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

Dimitri,
I spent over 30 years maintaining helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, the last being the F-111.
The oxy system on the F22 is an interesting case of everything working on paper to the plan and then showing up with an unexpected catastrophic fault after a few years of real operations.
Oxy's a funny gas, you need it and it can and will kill you if something goes wrong.

Cracks, yep they kept me employed for over 30 years, looking for them and fixing them.
Have a look at why the F 15 A thru C's were retired in a hurry.
Having the 2 major longerons fail and the cockpit separate from the fuselage with the pilot on board really highlights a major cockup in your maintenance program.

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7150
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Build in the current stealth technology and you have air superiority on a budget that even third world countries could afford.

the air vehicles are less expensive but they would not be able to afford the communication/satellite system to control them.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 7150
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

dhc4ever wrote:
Having the 2 major longerons fail and the cockpit separate from the fuselage with the pilot on board really highlights a major cockup in your maintenance program.

Don't blame maintenance. The longerons were incorrectly manufactured and the flaw was not found during manufacture.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
English Mike
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1165
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

Were building two aircraft carriers here that will be useless without the STOVL version of the F-35.
No CATOBAR ability, so nothing else will work & no carrier launched in flight refuelling.
Quite frankly; the UK would have been far better off buying FA-18 & using the $ saved for the newest carrier launch system. Mad
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906
Location: Southern Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

Don't forget limited ability to actually land vertically, Lockheed already admitted that pure vertical landings on the F-35B should be limited due to air frame and engine stresses.

Hiding

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2263
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: The F-35 JSF? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
dhc4ever wrote:
Having the 2 major longerons fail and the cockpit separate from the fuselage with the pilot on board really highlights a major cockup in your maintenance program.

Don't blame maintenance. The longerons were incorrectly manufactured and the flaw was not found during manufacture.

Yep manufacturing was to blame for the less than stellar manufacturing process and cost cutting.
I do blame the maintenance system for NOT finding the fault over the 20 odd years the F15 A-C was in the air, that's quite a few MAJOR deeper level maintenance inspections.
Having a catastrophic failure and THEN finding the manufacturing fault in 40% of your fleet should never have happened, if the system was effective it should have showed up in the first or second DM inspection before the failure in flight.

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Spam-O-Rama
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.