Several threads on here about shot placement versus bullet weights.

I teach service rifle classes for CMP and what some people expect as far as acceptable accuracy surprises me. The look on their face when we talk about keeping 20 shots inside a 12" 10 ring at 600 yards with iron sights they look at me like I am a big fat liar.

Sight alignment and trigger control..... not spray and pray.

Aloysius wrote:

SSL, I think one should be a 6 mm Rem owner to know what big mistake Remington made when they started offering the .244 Rem using a twist of 1 in 12", while Winchester gave their .243 Win a twist of 1 in 10". Later on Remington changed the twist in 1 in 9" and renamed it the 6 mm Rem. I like the 6 mm Rem and I know I don't use it enough, but that's mainly because I rather late learned to know the nice things about .224 bullets and their performances.

Remington really goofed on that one. Even so, if a person is interested in only varmints or is willing to live with using premium bullets of 90 grains or less, the old .244 is still a great rifle. You just have to live within its manufactured limitations.

Remington has a bad habit of muddying the waters. They made an unexplained and unexplainable move in simply renaming one of my pet cartridges, the .280 Remington, and nearly caused its demise through sheer confusion. Offered originally in 1957, Remington decided, for no apparent reason, in 1979 and 1980 to change the name to 7mm Remington Express...same cartridge...same rifles…different name. The resulting confusion and potentially lethal dangers of someone using the “7mm Remington Express” cartridges in a 7mm Remington Magnum chamber led Remington to return to the original designation of .280 Remington, but the cartridge suffered a minor setback as a result.

It's a lot like Tim Allen in Home Improvement, if you cannot get the job done with a standard tool get a bigger more powerful tool. Guess what you still can't get the job done, why? Because the tool (or its cost) is more important to you than the objective. And, for the most part you would rather talk a good game rather than putting in the time necessary to have a good game.

I have a Mossberg today that has the capacity for 3.5" shells and I've shot it a few times and it is OK, really nothing to get excited about it’s a shotgun and it will do its job, if I do mine.

What I miss are the two shotguns I sold before moving from Michigan to the south back in 1986 I believe the maker of the double barrel was Stevens and I loved it, but the partridge did not, gosh they are the best eating things my tongue has ever had on it, and a Winchester pump (I don't know make or model, that was before I was interested in such things) that took more geese and ducks than we could eat, both with 2 ¾” shells. Gave the extras to friends who couldn't shoot, but liked duck and goose, but, I never never ever gave away a partridge.

So, when I hear folks talking about bigger and better and more power and so on I always think of Tim Allen, OOOOORRRRAHHH more power, have a good chuckle. And, then I think what an idiot this guy is, oh well more game for me.

I guess that mossberg will feel pretty soft when firing 2 3/4" shells if it has the gentle forcing cones and back bored barrels that MOST 3 1/2" chambered guns seem to have. that is one improovement that has been talked about for a long time and is now being done more and more which can only be a good thing.

Fireman_DJ wrote:

It's not that animals are getting tougher, it's that less and less shooters actually know how to shoot so they need a bigger pill to ensure when they stuff up and get a gut shot they can still get a kill.

not much short of a bazooka will kill a deer quick enough to recover it if its hit in the guts the chances of tracking an animal hit there are slim at the best of times no matter what sized shoulder arm you use.

I know guys who hunt once a year and have gone three years with the same box of 20 shells. They take the rifle out and on the first day of the season shoot one round at a stump, tree or other handy whatever at 25 to 50 yards and if they hit it they are sighted in and it is off to shoot their moose. They invariably have magnum rifles with scopes and are using heavy bullets. I have had to trail and finish off their mistakes too often. They think they can shoot like an army sniper and their cannons will kill if they hit any part of the moose. I don't hunt with them anymore.

I won a 3 1/2 inch 12 Ga pump shotgun at a DU meeting. It is one fine turkey shooter. But I like about anything that put lead out of a barrel. At my age Iv heard plenty of BS about firearms and hunting. So I have gotten a number of different calibers and brands of rifles to try them hunting. Thy all work well if one is a good shot and knows the game hunted.

I gotta agree with all of the above sentiments...bigger does not always equate to better.

My humble little Krico .22 that I bought in 1969 is still my favourite little rifle, and if I need a centrefire, well then I have my .243 Weatherby and, the most prolific deer killer of all time, my 30.30 Winchester Model 94.

Having said that...we must never forget the limitations of our rifles. For argument sakes, I would never even remotely consider hunting deer with my .22 rimfire even though I know how well and accurate it shoots...it simply isn't enough gun.

Cheers, Vince

MacD wrote:

I know guys who hunt once a year and have gone three years with the same box of 20 shells.

Sounds like a guy I work with. He's as cheap as they get. Bought himself a Remington 770 in .270. It came with a scope and he was told it was bore sighted at the factory so why waste the ammo on a target. He's had the same box of ammo he got with the rifle for ten years now.
Now if you really want to hear some good BS at a gun counter, stop by Walmart. I overheard a discussion between a customer and the counter help regarding which ammo this guy needed for his Colt 1911. The counter man sold him a box of .45 Colt ammo, saying that it says right on it that it's .45 ammo made for a Colt. I'll bet he had a heck of a time trying to load his mags.
Don

BigBlue wrote:

MacD wrote: I know guys who hunt once a year and have gone three years with the same box of 20 shells. Sounds like a guy I work with. He's as cheap as they get. Bought himself a Remington 770 in .270. It came with a scope and he was told it was bore sighted at the factory so why waste the ammo on a target. He's had the same box of ammo he got with the rifle for ten years now. Now if you really want to hear some good BS at a gun counter, stop by Walmart. I overheard a discussion between a customer and the counter help regarding which ammo this guy needed for his Colt 1911. The counter man sold him a box of .45 Colt ammo, saying that it says right on it that it's .45 ammo made for a Colt. I'll bet he had a heck of a time trying to load his mags. Don

,,,two IDIOTS ,,,, don't make it right

Hunted with a guy once that wounded a deer with 12-gauge slugs. After firing seven (that's 7) times, he ran out of slugs and came to get me to finish off his deer (still mobile enough not to be able to catch). I did so and then found that he was shooting four different kinds of slugs and hadn't tried any to see where they shot in his smooth-bore.

Notice that I said I hunted once with him.

I never did understand people who insist on doing things the cheapest way possible and then can't understand why they don't get outstanding results.

Oh shoot...Pumpkinslinger is going to shame me into buying all that camo gear, camper, propane cook stove and all that other gear.

Naw...I'll stay cheap and get my deer anyway. Old tent, grate for my fire, old sleeping bag, a box of matches, hunting knife, 12 rounds of .30-30 and my old Jack Handle.

Bushy, now I'm not saying that people need to buy all the latest gear to be successful. I'll bet that your gear is quality stuff, isn't it? And you also get good results, right?

Old (4 man) tent, Hillary. Grate for open fire, stolen from an old BBQ. Sleeping bag, Coleman. Box of matches, Diamond. Hunting knife, Buck Personal. 12 rounds of .30-30, handloads. Old Jack Handle, 1949 Winchester .30 WCF. Oh...And a few well chosen rocks.

Yup...Works for me.