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.300 Win Mag or WSM?
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

I have a friend that is getting ready to buy a rifle. He asked me what I thought of the .308 or .30-06. My answer to him was a question - What do you want to do with it? He explained he was interested in hunting with a 180gr bullet beyond 300 yards. I told him the .30-06 would be about 100fps better than the .308 with the heavier bullets but he out to consider a .300 Win Mag or WSM at those distances and provided him with some ballistic comparison. He did some more research and told me he agrees.

My question for the forum is which one would you choose, .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM and why?

One advantage of the WSM - it appears to be more efficient with the powder (fps/grain of powder).

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:

One advantage of the WSM - it appears to be more efficient with the powder (fps/grain of powder).

I agree. Ballistics-wise, there isn't enough difference between the two to matter. Whatever you hit with either isn't going to notice the difference! If I had to make the choice, I would lean heavily towards the WSM simply because of what you note...its efficiency.

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

If you're buying loaded ammo, it probably doesn't matter. If you're a reloader, then you'll probably find 300 Win. Mag. brass is a bit more available and cheaper so that's why I'd go with that cartridge.

That said, if I ever got the bolt action handgun with the shorter action I've been lusting over for some time, the cartridge I'd choose would be the 300 WSM.
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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Brass issue may well be a good point, as you mentioned. Assuming a person can lay in a supply, reloading is where you would see a marked advantage to the WSM.

As an example:

.300 Winchester Magnum – 180-grain bullet 2,918 fps w/ 67 grains of H4350
.300 WSM - 180-grain bullet 2,950 fps w/ 64 grains of H4350

Granted that this only represents one powder and others may react differently, the above represents a reasonable increase in the efficient use of the load.

Final decisions may all boil down to what rifle of preference is available in the various chamberings too.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

You could throw the .300 RCM in the mix and then just pick the rifle he likes best. Looks like you could just flip a coin on the cartridges.

"The most recent short magnum cartridges, as of this writing, are the .300 and .338 Ruger Compact Magnums (RCM). These .308 length offerings, developed by Hornady for Ruger, are based on shortened .375 Ruger case. This is a beltless bottleneck case with a rim and head diameter of .532". The RCM's were introduced in 2008.

Hornady offers .300 RCM factory loads with 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets; 200 and 225 grain bullets are offered in the .338 RCM. The performance of the .300 RCM is comparable to that of the other .300 short magnums, while the .338 RCM--a true medium bore cartridge--is comparable to the .350 Rem. Mag. and superior to the .325 WSM.

Note that these RCM cartridges are not rebated rim designs. This means that they offer improved feeding reliability compared to the WSM and SAUM short magnums. As such, they (along with the 6.5mm and .350 Rem. Mags.) are the best designed and most reliable of the short magnum cartridges."

www.chuckhawks.com/sho...agnums.htm

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Considering the recoil factor, cost, variety and availability of components. That fact that there really isn't that much difference between the .300 Win Mag and the .30-06 (a few hundred fps). I'd still go with the .30-06. At 300 yards and the 180 grain bullet [of choice] still hurts whatever it hits.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
Considering the recoil factor, cost, variety and availability of components. That fact that there really isn't that much difference between the .300 Win Mag and the .30-06 (a few hundred fps). I'd still go with the .30-06. At 300 yards and the 180 grain bullet [of choice] still hurts whatever it hits.

I agree completely, 30/06 is the way to go.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

I would ask what critters this guy is going to be shooting at 300 yards with that 180 grain bullet. If he is going after big bears, moose or elk then I might undrstand the desire to use the magnums but for anything smaller than a moose or grizzley then the 3006 is going to be more than enough to kill cleanly if he hits it in the right spot. If he needs more cartridge than the 3006 then I would opt for the 338 mag. It is common enough - the military is using it for sniper rifles - that you can get it in more places than the shot mags.
The amount of powder being used is a small part of the hunting load and a small price to pay for the success of a hunting trip. "Efficient" cartridges use much higher pressure to get their velocities and that is hard on the gun, shooter's ears and shoulder. It is hard to beat the old '06 when it comes to a big game cartridge.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Thanks for all the inputs. I knew this topic would spark interest. He wants to hunt elk with a capability to go beyond 300 yards out to 500 yards. For bullets that are solid enough for penetration and still expand effectively, my research shows they need to be going 1800 to 2000 fps. A .30-06 won't have that much steam with a 180gr bullet at 500 yards. I suggested he could load the .300 WSM on the low side of the recommended loads and have just a bit more than the .30-06 with the option to load higher for longer reach. Here is some of the load data I shared with him.

.308 Win

168gr TTSX Varget 41.0gr 2475fps up to 45.5gr 2712fps 101% case capacity
180gr TTSX H4895 38.0gr 2325fps up to 42.0gr 2566fps 97%
180gr TTSX AA2520 44.0gr 2484fps up to 47.5gr 2669fps 98%

.30-06
168gr TTSX IMR 4064 46.5gr 2594fps up to 50.0gr 2801fps 95%
180gr TTSX IMR 4064 44.5gr 2464fos up to 48.0gr 2639fps 94%
180gr TTSX Big Game 49.0gr 2513fps up to 54.0gr 2742fps 98%

.300 Win Mag
168gr TTSX IMR 4831 67.0gr 2921fps up to 73.0gr 3140fps 98%
180gr TTSX IMR 4831 65.0gr 2784fps up to 71.0gr 2995fps 97%

.300 WSM
168gr TTSX Win 760 60.5gr 2898fps up to 65.0gr 3101fps 89%
180gr TTSX RL 19 62.5gr 2771fps up to 69.5gr 3036fps 107%

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Load data taken from 6th (1972 edition) of handloaders digest for the 30/06/.



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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

yip I throw my hat in the 30/06 ring too!!!
if the 180 doesnt seen to have the legs to get out to 500yrds have a long hard look at a lighter projectile surely a 165 or 150 of a solidish construction would be more than suitable.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
Load data taken from 6th (1972 edition) of handloaders digest for the 30/06/.

OV1, your a hoot! Saber-tooth tigers and mastadons! Given a choice, however, I wouldn't hunt with bullet designs from 40 years ago at longer ranges. I want confidence that my bullet is going to arrive where I aim it and will expand, penetrate, and stay intact. The load data you posted for a .30-06 with a 180gr bullet also places muzzle velocity in the 2700fps range. My objective is to still have 2000 fps at 500 yards. Here is what happens down range with this cartridge bullet combinations using a 0.5 BC which I think most of the bullets shown would fall short of. Lighter bullets have faster muzzle velocities but their lower BCs don't help them achieve this objective.



.30-06 down range data for 0.5 bc.jpg
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Im sure the thousands of bison that were taken with those "older bullets" would tell you that they worked just fine. the millions of red deer shot in this country using fmj .303 ball ammo would probably tell you the same thing. hit em in the boiler room and they will go down pretty quick smart.

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

I do like the .300 Win Mag.
I also have shot game with my .338 Win Mag.

However, the gang is very correct that the 180 gr is the load of choice for the 30-06.

My question is why, before a hunt, do you expect to shoot WAY out from 300-500 yards in the first place.
I'm a good shot, but except for one time, I have passed up those type of shots.

I don't mean to be a poop. Just wondering. Very Happy

Eric

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: .300 Win Mag or WSM? Reply with quote

Shocked Not to disparage anyones Ideas on their own personal "beliefs" on magnums vs. standard loads........But as I recall a little bit of history on the 30-06 cartridge;It was originally issued in '03 with a 220 grain projectile,later maybe in '06 to be changed to a 180 grain projectile and adopted by the us military in the standard issue springfield "03A3" type of rifle.I believe it remained with that loading until the second world war,and during its' time from 03 to 1940, it was used by members of the military and others to dispatch humans out to ranges beyond 1000 yds,and by hunters in just about any game hunting throughout the world at all ranges with all types of projectiles,sometime in the 1940's it's bullet was changed to the 150 grain weight.It is an all around cartridge,and has won camp perry and wmbleton rifle matches for many years.The only draw back to it's performance over the "magnums"in 30 caliber is that one has to learn to hold a bit higher on the target at the longer ranges.220,250,and someone even made a special 300 grain bullet for it over the many years of it's existance.I do own a 338 winmag-but it was a special purchase for a brown bear hunt in alaska,and I have seen nothing in the lower 48 that needs that kind of killing potential-except maybe a freight train!FWIW. YMMV:lol:
PS-I even have freinds that own 300 magnums. Razz

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