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AR-15 done
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Suz, wow I have never heard anyone else talk about a scope that is reversed or to my thinking backwards.

What a relief I had one too and thought I was crazier than I am. I threw it away and bought another.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Lester, you forget that Suz herself is a little reverse... why do it the easy way so that everybody can do it? So she puts her scope backwards and aims trough mirrors... many people like the trying instead of hitting with the first shot... it's a kind of bird-control-thing Smile
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Haha Haha Haha Haha

You better get over here real quick Aloys...we gotta make a beeline fer the ladder mate...I can hear Suz testing switches mate. scared Hiding

Cheers, Vince

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Aloysius good advice from Vince, and better you than me.

In your defense I am sure that you was just jesting with Suz and not trying to get her hackles up or anything like that, were you.

Suz it was just an unfortunate slip of the tounge, I mean fingers in this case so try not to hurt him too bad.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Aloysissy is drinkin that apple stuff again. Yuck Some sort of mash they make every year and it makes them bold, horny and cantankerous. He won't take that branch out of his hat either and I suspect it poison oak. Saint what's-his-name is watchin over you Aloy but he won't protect you from the natives. Viking

Yeah Lester I've run across more than one scope that has reverse directions on the adjustments. This is a Nikon and I've got other Nikons (don't remember if they're right or not) and it gets you into nowheresville fast. Don't wanna use up ALL my reloaded 8mm just tryin to get on paper. I'm going to bore sight it again at home and take it out again today. That thumb-hole stock really is nice and comfortable. It onlly has a 1/2inch sort of hard rubber recoil pad but it's amazingly easy on the shoulder. Nice on your wrist too. Weather is in the 20s and foggy, (like yesterday) but it'll clear up and get into 50 degrees around 2pm. I love the thump of it and the sound of it, I'm bettin it'll be a favorite of mine if it shoots good on paper anyway. Common sun, Mad hurry up and burn this fog off!

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

are you sure they are backwards? When you look down a scope and and turn the knob down the cross hairs go up. Turn the knob right, crosshairs go left. It is like the fornt sight on irons. goes backwards to bullet impact.

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

All due respect Dawgdad and with great humility I would suggest that if the reticule knob says up and you turn it in that direction the POI should appear higher on paper, and if the other reticule knob says left and you turn it in that direction POI should move left.

Just my humble opinion, oh and if they don't it's trash time.

_________________
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Read again what Dawgdad is saying, because he is right on. When I boresight my rifle at home, I take the bolt out, secure the rifle in a vice, and look down the barrel to center the bore on a recognizable object, e.g., fire hydrant, mailbox, etc. Then I move the scope reticles over the same object. In this situation, the reticles will move in the opposite direction from the knobs. That's because for the POI to move right, the reticles have to move left, the opposite direction to the knob marking.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

So being of aboriginal descent, my evaluation on arrow reading and the English language (as in directions on scope adjustments and such) is now all a-twitter. Here's some instruction for example;

STEP 4

Adjust the elevation turret to move the bullet up or down onto the bull's-eye. The elevation turret is the top knob on the scope. Most of these scopes have an arrow or a "U" indicating "Up." The rule of thumb to follow is if you want to move the bullet up, turn the knob towards the "U." For a scope with a 1/4-inch or MOA adjustment, one audible click will move the bullet by 1/4-inch up or down on the target.
STEP 5

Adjust the windage knob on the turret. This knob will be on either the left or right side of the scope, typically indicated by a "W" for windage. If your shots land to the left of the bull's-eye, adjust the windage knob to the right until your shot lands on the bull's-eye. For a 1/4-MOA scope, adjustments for windage follow the same principle of elevation in increments, with one click equal to 1/4-inch at 100 yards. Most scopes have an arrow pointing to an "R," indicating the direction "right."

A simple instruction of basic English is hard to get wrong. When the U arrow direction is turned and the POI goes down, then the instructions are wrong. I have 7 scopes and 2 reflex sights. How did I get this far without knowing which way to turn the knobs?

I'm putting a scope on the AR, this reflex sight is a PIA to sight-in. I went out today and got the Mauser sighted in with about 6 rnds. The reflex sight on the AR doesn't seem to move unless you crank and crank and crank it around. At 25yds I'm close, about 2inches in both directions but I used up a ton of ammo doin it. It must be 1/8th inch increments at that range. It says it's 1" at 100yds, 1/2" at 50yds but at 25yds it's like it never moves at all. I'll get it, but my patience is wearing thin. Yeah it would be nice to have a spotter but my friends already know their life expectancy is limited even more if they go out with me. Very Happy Just kidding.....

the all
powerful
Suz

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

If one click equals 1" at 100 yards it will be 1/4" at 25. My usual routine is to bore sight it at 25 yards, then fire a shot or more to make sure I'm on the paper. When I'm close to the bullseye I move to 100 yards and start zeroing it in. After each adjustment on the sight I bump the butt of the gun on something hard, with a piece of carpet in between, to help settle the sight. Depending on the rifle/cartridge/usage I may zero it dead on at 100 or a couple inches high at 100 (giving me an approximate zero of 200 yards for most "deer" cartridges).

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

I do pretty much the same as Punkin...bore sight at 25m, fire a couple of shots to confirm "target", then move out to 100m. If I am unsure about how much to move the scope, I always make my first adjustment a "bold" adjustment...none of this "1 click = 1" at 100m"...I will do say two 1/2 turns of the knob and then fire a couple of shots to see where the POI is...then I start the fine tuning process by counting clicks.

I take scant notice of the R-L and U-D markings on the scope...I know that if I turned the knob clockwise and it moved the POI in "this" direction... turning it counter-clockwise will move it in the other direction. Once the rifle is zeroed, I then "zero" the adjustment knobs by re-aligning the scale on the knob to the "0" point so that if I do need to make adjustments I will always know where that "0" point is and can return it easily.

Cheers, Vince

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

the markings on the knob are referenced to the bullet point of impact. To move the point of impact up the reticle goes down, like the front sight on iron sighted weapons.

The ablilty of a scope to give accurate and repeatable adjustments are directly related to the cost.


The new AR build was zeroed in three shots after bore sighting...

first shot out of the pipe was at 25 yards. 1/2 high = should have been about 2" low so I figured it would be about 10" up at 100. Shot # two out of the pipe,at 100, was +9 1R I came left 1 moa and down 8 moa and fired a three shot group that was centered 1" up. backed up to 200 yards and the first shot punched out the 1" spot I was aiming at... next four shots pile in under 1 moa around the dot - I love White Oak Wilson barrels.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Suze - are you at the end of the adjustment? ie you keep asking it to bring the poi down and it does not move at all? have you tried going the opposite direction to see if it is giving any adjustment?

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Maybe the problem is in the question: "What goes up?"
Suz says that the POI should go up when the knob is dailed in the up-direction... but sometimes the cross would go up when doing this. And when the cross goes up, the POI goes down.
So being at my age and knowing the limits of my harddisk + having met Mr. Murphy several times: I fix my rifle in a stable position and dail the knobs (up/down or left/right) so that the cross goes in the direction of the POI Smile
or: looking trough the barrel at a special shaped branch on the tree 100 m behind my office, would also place that branch in the middle of my scope. (same with see-trough mounts that shows both iron aiming device and scope.)

1 remark: the cross doesn't always listen immediatly to the turning of the knobs, sometimes only after some beating or kicking. There 's often a difference when you turn them in or out. Learned the hard way to start adjustments with POI right and high on your target so that you only have to screw both knobs IN!
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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: AR-15 done Reply with quote

Yep Dawgdad is right when you are looking down the barrel, sorry if I shot off my (mouth) fingers too fast.

But, I haven't looked down a barrel in 30 years, since I bought a bore sighter.

I bore sight at home, at the range I take one shot at 25 yards to see where I am on the paper, might or might not make an adjustment at this point, the bore sighter is pretty darn good, and then fire a couple off at 100 and adjust as required.

I like Pumpkins idea about thumping the butt, I've been using a small lead loaded rubber mallet, a couple of light taps on the reticule screws.

And this goes way way back to when I was a tool maker where we routinely held tolerances to .0001. When ever positioning a work surface to a location I always finished moving it in the same direction. So no left or right, this was done clockwise or counter clockwise, so if making adjustments counterclockwise, always go well past your point and bring the surface back to dimension in a clockwise movement. This compensated for whatever slop existed in the machines screws.

Do the same with my scopes, always finish clockwise. But still, the scope was cr-p, and wrong. I was shooting not looking down the barrel. Now I will admit that this was a few years back and the scope came as a package deal with the rifle, and since I cannot even recall if it had a brand name on it I have to assume it was CR-P.

Thanks to you guys and your advice I no longer buy packaged deals, and I only buy quality glass.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

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