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Cheney's Hunting Accident
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Sorry I didn't mean to agree with you................. Embarassed

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Don't mind him Bushy.......your eyesight goes bad after the learning curve of shooting Marlins. Laughing

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akroxy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

What about the fact he didn't have an upland game permit? Just stirring the pot.

D

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popgun
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Accidents happen to everyone who sticks one leg then the other in their britches every day. Accidents do have have a cause and resulting effect.
Criminals do things intentionally. So if it was not intentional it was an accident.
When someone has the same accident over and over they are plain stupid and dangerous to be around.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Yeah...That is a bother...He was fined for it though and he paid the fine...My question is how come he didn't know he and his friend (the Lawyer) didn't know they were supposed to have one. Glad I wear Brown boots and they are high shafts with tall riding heels...Private ranch? No excuse!!!

Again Popgun...NO such thing as an accident...Accidents have to be something that you had NO control over and we all have control over everything we do...Some just don't exersize this control and Wa-la...Oil spill, smashed thumb, fallen 861 lb sheeve (happened yesterday at my shop. Wasn't secured properly. Accident?), etc, etc.

I will argue this "accident" thing until you turn blue and the cows come home...I have been working in the industry of major diesels, large/small machinery and man made catastrifies (EXXON Valdez). (New Orleans was not an accident. It was poor maintenance of its dams and levees). for a long time and there is NO such thing as an accident. It is just an excuse to to be lazy and complacent...

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Flint54
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Guess it my turn.

First I cannot defend Cheny. No permit, He sould have been fined just the same as you or me if we had been Hunting without a permit. Unless the ranch had a permit to raise and charge for birds just as many other "CANNED HUNT PRESERVES" do.

Shooting a Lawyer Very Happy , Something that a great many of us dream of, BUT in all seriousness yes it WAS an Accident. On the same hand it was a PREVENTABLE Accident. Just the same as your 861# Sheve was a preventable accident. Someone was inattentive, did not follow proper standards or procedures but did not do it with Intent. That is the diffrence. If someone at your shop intentionally did something to have the sheve fall then it would not have been an accident it would have been an intentional act. Negligence and inattention cause accidents this is a lot diffrent than Intentional Negligence.

VP Cheny, should have his Hunting Privledges revoked by the state, he should be fined and required to cover any and all hospital bills involved just as I myself would be responsible if it had been me involved . He should be held to the same standards or higher due to his position. Smile
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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Bushmaster wrote:
1895sshhsshh...Did you even read my last post? I already said that...There is no such thing as an accident...If a valve suddenly starts gushing crude oil it means that maintenance didn't inspect that valve and make necessary repairs before it let go...If you load a case and forget to check it for powder drop and you seat a bullet you get a squib...Is that an accident or was it "Cause and Effect"? You didn't inspect the case to insure that it had powder in it before you seated the bullet (The cause). A squib (The effect). Carelessness? Yes! Accident? NO...!!

MmmMmmm Whiskey good tonight....I'm in fine fiddle...

Gidday Bushy....mate that is very profound....Cause and Effect...WOW. I'm impressed....a bombastic display of eloquence.

Seriously though mate, I can't agree more. A stupid mistake is exactly that. We have all done it at one time or another....forgotten to check something and sure enough...PPPHHHHTTTTT...something goes wrong. No-one to blame but ourselves. I call it the nature of the beast. Nobody is perfect except you, me and 1895ss....and lately I have been wondering about him. Very Happy Very Happy Laughing Very Happy Laughing As I often say, "Hindsight is the most exacting science known to man".

Whisky.....jobs on!

Cheers, Vince

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

I'm sure glad you guys can put a smile on your faces when you pick on me. It certainly doesn't bother me. Like water off a ducks back............ Guitarist Popcorn Very Happy

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

1895ss wrote:
I'm sure glad you guys can put a smile on your faces when you pick on me. It certainly doesn't bother me. Like water off a ducks back............ Guitarist Popcorn Very Happy

Mate, while we are picking on you we are leaving everyone else alone. Very Happy

What is the latest on the condition of DC's friend that was shot? Haven't heard anything on the news today. Last I heard he was taken back into IC when a piece of shot passed into his heart. We get a heap of news over here on things that happen in the US.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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1895ss
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

No problem Vince....... Very Happy

The last I heard the lawyer friend was to make a full recovery but I have'nt followed the story that closely.

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popgun
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Vince,
He had a piece of shot that migrated to his heart but the doctors do not plan to operate to remove it. At his age it is more of a problem to remove the shot than treat the problem with "Drugs". It was causing a rythem problem
I wonder what drug fixes 'lead poisioning'?
They said today he would be in the hospital at least 6 more days. He is in ICU but the doctors said that was for privacy (to keep the press out). He has been doing some work in his bed. I didn't know lawyers did that lolol

Quote::
Bushmaster
I will argue this "accident" thing until you turn blue and the cows come home.

I'm breathing normaly and all the cows are in the back pasture bedded down for the night. Never fear, I can argue with a stone wall for entertainment myself. Very Happy

Even though you are stuck in your terminology everyone uses the word 'accident' but your cause and effect does apply. It was a human mistake, a careless mistake, and a mistake he will live with for the rest of his life. There ya go, it was not an accident, it was a careless human mistake. Very Happy

The bird permit was probably the Migratory Bird Permit (H.I.P.) which is usually free in most states so I think it would have been an omission on the part of the license agent and a failure of the license holder to check to make sure he had it. Still a minor thing compared to peppering a friend.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Popgun,

My first firerams instructor had lead shot in his foot for 40 years or so when I did my hunter safety course. Shocked

In old cosmetics they used lead, and the Romans used to eat it as a spice wtf

I myself think lead posioning is overly hyped up. Smile

Dimitri

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mikekuzara
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Being as that the first time I was able to vote, I voted to send Dick Cheney to congress, Maybe I am a little defensive. So let's go through this by the numbers.

1. He did have a bird license, he did not have the $7.00 upland bird stamp. In Wyoming this would be the same as not having the $10.00 conservation stamp. You are not fined in either state for not having one, unless you have other violations at the same time. You simply have to purchase the stamp. One of my best friends is a Game Warden, so I asked him to clarify. So on this point, he was treated no differently.

2. An accident is, by defintition, an unintended occurance. When something is not an accident, it is intentional. An unavoidable accident is when something unpreventable and unpredictable happens.

What happened was an accident, as it was not intentional. Was it due to lack of judgement or poor safety procedures by one or more people? Yes. Was this intentional on anyones part? No.

3. Was this a big deal? Not really. It could have been worse, but was not. The only people this was a big deal to, besides the people directly invovled, were the people who already had a deep rooted hatered for the current administration and the media elite, who felt rightous indignation that THEY were not informed of the accident before the victim left in the ambulance.

4. Would you really like to have any of the stupid accidents you have had in your life braodcast to the entire country, knowing that the majority of the media was going to do it's best to put the absolute worst face on it?

Think about it. Ever unintentionaly hit someone with your hand or an object, maybe one of your children? Dropped something on their foot, stepped on their toe? Ever urinated outdoors? Ever farted in public?

How would you handle having national news broadcasts using these examples of behavior as what kind of person you are?

This is the stereotypical example of making a mountain out of a molehill.

To be perfectly honest, Dick Cheney pisses a lot of people off. Mostly because he has a very low tolerance for BS. He doesn't bother kissing the butts of the media or anyone else who he knows hates him. Perfectly summed up in what he told Sen. Patrick Leahey to do to himself, after the senator had called him a liar just hours before.

Criticize his or his friends safety if you want, but basically on the rest of it, kindly sit back, relax, and have a nice hot cup of shut the hell up. Since I know I have made mistakes in the past, I find it hard to not to forgive an honest mistake by someone else.

I guess if you are perfect, and have never made a mistake or had an accident in your life, you can feel free to criticize the VP or any one else all you want.

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mikekuzara
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

By the way, I hear the sherrif is going to fine the Vice President $100.00 for just wounding a lawyer.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Cheney's Hunting Accident Reply with quote

Sure glad we got THAT settled... Popcorn Cheers

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