HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: Hydeqs
New Today: 2
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12425

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 122
BOT: 3
Total: 125
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Home
03: Your Account
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Statistics
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Photo Albums
15: Forums
16: Photo Albums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Your Account
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Photo Albums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Photo Albums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Home
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Home
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Photo Albums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Your Account
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Your Account
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Photo Albums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Photo Albums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: News
100: Forums
101: Home
102: News
103: Photo Albums
104: Forums
105: Home
106: Forums
107: Photo Albums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Photo Albums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Your Account
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Photo Albums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 300
 Pictures: 2357
  · Views: 275471
  · Votes: 1295
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups?
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6998
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:49 am    Post subject: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

The Dec/Jan 2012 issue of Shooting Times (pg. 64) has an article on this subject. The gist of the article is for a hunting rifle, 3-shot groups are probably all you need. For a heavy-barrel or match rifle, 5-shot (or more) groups are a better test of your rifle.

I've developed a different way of shooting groups and I'm still figuring it out. I know my Tikka T3 Lite's POI start to shift after 2 shots, so even when I shoot a 3-shot or 5-shot group I let the barrel cool after 2. However, now I shoot multiple 2-shot groups. But, here's the difference. I record them over several range sessions, even for a full year. This to me is the true accuracy of my rifle's configuration. Attach is my target of record for this year shot at 100 yards. The blue shots at this last range session were the worst the rifle has done with this load, however, I found on case was a bit hard to close the bolt on and measured 0.005 beyond max case length.

What do you gals and guys think?



130 gmx 100 yard zero record.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  207.11 KB
 Viewed:  3968 Time(s)

130 gmx 100 yard zero record.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10248
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

I will fire 3 shot groups with a rifle and 5 shot groups with a handgun.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

When developing a load I think the 5-10 shot groups are useful to identify variability but once you settle on a load the approach you are using would be a good way to track clean cold bore groups. On a hunting rifle that is what really counts anyway. Where is the first shot going? That is the best answer.


For my competion rifles - 10 shots at 300 yards slung up in prone position is the barometer to compare groups to.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MacD
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 1052
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Three shots for sighting in and five shots for load development. I fire the .223 10 shots with cheap ammo to warm it up before I check a load as I find the POI changes enough from cold to warm to make comparisons difficult. I should really be alternating when I fire different loads to even out the effect but I get confused easy :-(

The .308 I shoot cold for sighting and warm for load development.

_________________
La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle)
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6998
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Ok, let me ask a different way. Instead of shooting your group in one range session, shoot a 3 or 5 shot group with, say, a month between each shot. I think doing it in this manner gives me a better picture of what to expect when I pull the trigger on a hunt. Basically, all my shots have been within an inch of the bull which is good. However, my MOA rifle is closer to 2 MOA if considering a time lapsed grouping.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2025
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

What about wind and temperature?
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2985
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
say, a month between each shot.

Shocked I can't fire one shot a month!!! Imagine the withdrawal symptoms we would have. Very Happy

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2955
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

I shoot 5 shot groups unless the first three are real good ROFL

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
DallanC
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 18, 2005
Posts: 3107
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

shrpshtrjoe wrote:
I shoot 5 shot groups unless the first three are real good ROFL

Hahaha.

I normally shoot 5... and always curse that 5th shot. Maybe its time to compromise and stick with 4 shot groups.


-DallanC
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6998
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

MacD wrote:
five shots for load development. ...

I gave up using 5-shot groups for load development because its a waste of bullets and powder. It only takes me two shots know a load isn't worth persuing. That's one of the nice aspects of OCW and 3-shot groups. I start using 5- to 10-shot groups when i want to confirm the load I developed is really a good one.

MacD wrote:
... I should really be alternating when I fire different loads to even out the effect but I get confused easy

Same happens to me - no way I can alternate and not make a mistake.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 6998
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
What about wind and temperature?

I shoot at 100 yards to minimize wind affect but as you can see it is still present.

I think it good to see the affects of temperature. When I hunt, it could be 20 degrees in the morning and 65 that afternoon.

Altitude is another. When I was hunting elk, I could have been at 6000' or 9000'.

I want to know these affects and I'm still learning. That is why I shoot this time-lapsed grouping. I think it gives a true representation of my rifle's accuracy.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile
44marty
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009
Posts: 775
Location: Cheshire, MA; USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

When comparing charge weights or components (bullets, powders, OAL, etc) I always shoot "round robin" with the barrel allowed to cool completely between shots. 5 rounds each. The only thing that is a PITA about shooting this way is keeping chrono results tabulated correctly. Most of the time, I don't bother with the chrono until I have chosen a go-to loading that will be used at various distances.
If tuning a rifle for timed-fire or rapid fire competition, I would go about this differently. Almost all of my serious shooting is one-shot hunting. The rest is just recreational practice.

Then there will be other targets from different rifles with groups of at least 20 rounds. These are the rounds I shoot while getting bored during cooling the above barrel.

Handguns (and rifles with iron sights) generally 10-shot groups.

Sighting-in, 3 shot groups until it is "dialed in" followed by a 5 shot group (or several 10 shot groups, if I have plenty of ammo).

I think the magazine articles are correct that 3 shots will be enough, provided that you take very serious care that each shot is held "perfectly" - BUT Shooting is just too much fun to limit the number of rounds that much. Of course, I am shooting at my own private area - not a shared public range.

_________________
_____________________________________

The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling

I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4788
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Dawgdad kinda nailed it.

Sporter barrel- 3 max. as most barrels are just too thin for sustained firing for effect/groups. I'll track the first shot cold fouled, first shot and 3rd shot warm.

Heavy barrel- ditto and 5 max. Usually 3 will tell me what I need to know.


If I'm firing to test a load(s) I'll try one cold/clean for POI, 3 from cold fouled and 3 from warm if it looks promising to get an average and a feel for where the load is going and after settling on one then I'll fire for effect on the intended target/at intended range. POI will change due to many factors even with the same powder from a different lot so I make minor clicker adjustments as nec, or if things are really off, tweak the load as nec. to tighten her back up. It all boils down to barrel resonance- steel vibrates at diff frequencies under diff conditions.

Shooting groups is boring! I live for the *PANG!* Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile
TRBLSHTR
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1037
Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Very Happy five shot groups for load development-then strictly one shot cold bore shots.If I have a POI question then back to 5 shot group.I have also found that with getting older my eyes change from time to time-which changes POI when I am using scoped guns,don't shoot much irons anymore. Confused

_________________
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." Thomas Mann
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2985
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

3 shot groups for sighting in and 5-10 shots when developing and chrony the loads.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 4
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.