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Group size at different ranges and zero
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

Red dot is 1" or is red dot 4"??

Assuming 1" - you have a 1/2 MOA group that is +2 at 100, a sub MOA group at 150 also +2" with a little right. The two shots at 200 are 1/2 moa 1.25" up and 2.5 right, and the three shots at 250 are 1 moa and good for elevation but also 2.25" right.

Are you aiming at the same target at each distance? The vertical dispersion at 225 may be due to not clearly seeing the aiming point. still a half moa load with a 4" PBZ out to 300 yards.

You said no wind but the centers kept drifting right. I would put a three clicks left on and call it ready to go.

If red dot is 4" disregard this post and try a new powder. Shocked


H414 , IMR 4064 and IMR 8208XBR are hammers with 58 gr V-max in my .243.

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clembob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

Elvis
Same magnification
Not worried about pelt damage.
Light bullet because smaller safer as areas are not so open to shoot.
I have some 70g sierras I can try as well.
Ominivision1 sorry I did not understand "Do not change yardage for targets"
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

clembob

Place the target(s) at 100 yards and shoot your loads. In other words shoot all the loads at 100 yards and see what happens.

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clembob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

Dawgdad
It was a 1" red dot
Same aiming point for all distances.
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44marty
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

I think that the difference may be in the setup (support points, sandbags used or even the height of the bench compared with the seat) between the two shooting areas. There shouldn't be this kind of difference in results between 87 and 100 yards.
When you mentioned that these were two different shooting areas - well, I think this could be the key clue here. My guess is that there is either something different in the way the rifle is being held, or a difference in the way you are looking through the scope, possibly not having your head in the same position on the stock.

A friend once bought a 30 / 30 from someone I had shot with before. My friend was ready to sell the rifle because he was getting terrible groups. I knew this rifle had shot well before he bought it, so I went with him to the range to see what could be up. It turned out that my friend was using sand bags and supporting the rifle under the barrel instead of the stock. problem solved. Never support a rifle by the barrel.

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clembob
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

Well here we are all shot at 100 yards slight wind coming from 10 o'clock direction 5-10 mph Center aiming point was a .6" square for all shots
Red shot first
Green second
Red and green bullets needed 1 inch taken off x and y to fit Point bank program so should be firther to the left top corner in reality.
Green 2 pulled
10 min cool down
Brown shot
Grey shot
Grey 2 pulled
Only difference when shooting was the rifle was the forearm was resting an the webbing of my sticks and the butt was in my should but resting on my hand that was on the rail of a fence so gun was fully supported.
I did notice the first 6 shots the riflel forend sling connector was in the middle of the webbing of the sticks while on the last 6 shots it was further back on the forearm.
I'm wondering if its the stock that is causing the variances as the forend is very flexible and touches the barrel easily depending on where the support is?
Does any one know where I can get the Savage Accustock as that seems to have strenghting rods in the forearm



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Last edited by clembob on Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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clembob
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

Here is the actual shot measurments
Red 100
x y
2.59 3.0
2.92 3.25
2.87 2.99
Green 70
3.16 3.2
3.00 3.25
1.73 2.92
Brown 55
1.76 1.59
1.42 0.93
0.89 1.06
Grey
1.31 1.56
1.13 1.12
0.36 2.42
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

You are definitely getting closer especially with the RED group. When you do load experimentation, I always write on pencil and paper the load data, then transfer to a pc. Hard drives fail, pencil and paper don't. Laughing

Work on them red loads as far as sighting in and it looks like you might have a winner.

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44marty
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

You could try supporting the forend as far as possible back toward the action when shooting. Shooting from a bench will probably be best when working up what the "accuracy load" for your rifle is. This is a very small sample of rounds fired, but it does seem to suggest this rifle likes the heavier bullets. I'll bet it really likes the Hornady 105gr AMax bullets (Hornady #24562).

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

this is where I was leading with asking what changed between the 87yrd range and the 100yrd range eg what did you do different was one group off a bench and one damped prone??? if you are aware that the stock touches easy you have probably got your answer.
good suggestion Marty alot of guys over here swear by the 87grn for deer maybe a heavier varmit bullet may work for you something soft and fragile should take care of the safety aspect.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

I agree Elvis. I would say the stock is touching the barrel and as the barrel warms, the pressure on the stock would increase...albeit only a small amount, but I'd say enough to cause the difference in POI.

I found my Weatherby .243 seemed to prefer the 70gn and 85gn bullets, but that is my rifle...maybe yours prefers a heavier bullet as Marty suggests CB.

Cheers, Vince

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

I had a interesting sesson today checking out a load for my .223 AR varmint rig.

I fired two three shot groups to get centered up and both were right at an inch. Not really impressive but not horrible either.

I fired a group of three at 200 and a group of three at 300 yards. The group at 200 was just under one inch for 1/2 moa, the 300 yard group was 2.75" just under 1 moa.

I thought this was odd so I fired another three shots at 100 yards... 1.1 inch...

The load was a hot 55 grain Vmax with 27.1 gr Varget.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

Thats a very dead varmit to be sure.
Im guessing the load "goes to sleep" AFTER its gone past the 100yrd mark??

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: Group size at different ranges and zero Reply with quote

I agree that it is plenty accurate for minute of coyote shooting and that three shot groups are really statistically insignificant.

It was an example of if I was looking for a sub MOA shooter at only 100 yards I might have passed on this load.

200 yard group on 5.5" Shoot-N-C target.


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