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Bi-pod v sandbags !!!
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:44 am    Post subject: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

Has anyone done any testing for POI changes between bi-pods and sandbags ???
Be interested in any thoughts on the issue !!!

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

That would make a good test! I'll try to remember to test that next time I get to the range. Right now I'm wary of using a bipod on a hard surface because I figure it would have to bounce some.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

Mr. Dear Sniper seems to do pretty darn well w/ bi-pods.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

Yes he does!!! I’ve asked him questions in regards to using one.

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whittling
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

Bipods are the best.

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

I've used bi pods on a bench and they bounce pretty good, enough that the legs will start to retract if you don't get the knobs extremely tight!!!!

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

Only time I have ever used a bipod is on a machine gun (Bren, M60 and Mag58) when I was in the Army, although I've been threatening to buy a bipod for my Weatherby Vanguard for a couple of years...just can't afford a Harris Bipod yet.

I don't think that there would be any difference of POI between a bipod and sandbags...assuming both are under the forearm and not in contact with the barrel. A rifle will move a similar amount on either rest on firing. It would be after the initial recoil that there would likely be any difference, and that would only be in the "settling" of the rifle back onto its rest.

Cheers, Vince

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

I do believe these are one of the more "in the head" problems, there are 2 very different schools of thought and they do not agree.

Myself I just sling up and let God guide the bullets to target if that counts. Confused

Dimitri

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

So no-one has actually shot the same gun and load combination using the two different types of rest to see what might happen!!!

Here of late I’ve done some very limited testing (I hesitate to call it testing) with different types of rest to see if group size and POI are affected enough to warrant some further investigation.

My deer rifle is sighted in 1 inch high at 100 yards using a sandbag rest.
With the bi-pod on the gun it shoots 3 ½ inches low at 100 yards, for a total difference of 4 ½ inches between the two rest.
I found this to be rather surprising and wanted to do more shooting to confirm what I had seen. Being limited on loaded ammo right now and time restraints I was hoping someone could confirm what I saw.

D, could you please elaborate a little more on what your trying to say.
Not sure how to take it or what it means !!!
As far as slinging up, why not take advantage of a solid rest when it’s available. Especially when the possibility exist to shoot a deer out to 600 yards !!!

Whittling, I thought long ago bi-pods were the way to go because of their wide stance and stability.
In the beginning days of F-class shooting everyone was using them. Now days you’re hard pressed to see one on the firing line. Most all shooters have migrated to a mechanical rest/bag combo because they have been proven a better mouse trap so to speak.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

My experiences have pretty much mirrored yours. Each of my rifles shoots differently when comparing sandbags to bipods, which is why if I am planning to use bipods in the field I zero the rifle while using one. Even then, slight deviations in hold and position can still change POI. I mostly rely on a backpack or rolled jacket now.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

I mean the people who use sandbags and the people who use bipods seem to have very different views and I never heard one say that the other may work just as well. Smile

As for shooting to 600 yards, not on a deer, however I shoot with the sling because that is the worse way I'd find myself shooting so I practice as I hunt.

Dimitri

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

D makes a good point.

My hold and trigger control (human element) has more to do with my first shot POI than what I rest the stock on. (e.g. tactical .308 bipod on card table, M-59/M1 from concrete bench w/ cinder block/ towel etc. Never used a rear rest for some reason)

For me what I rest it on is a matter of convenience. Short of resting the bbl on something I'm not sure how the [front] rest, if solid, would affect the POI on the first shot.
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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

I have to say the only thing I experienced with the bi pod is the jump on a hard surface. But I have to say that I concentrate more on the fundamentals of breathing, trigger squeeze, and picking up the same position on the stock as well as sight picture. I still do dime and washer drills occasionally when I get shaky.

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The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it!
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

The bounce that occurs when using a bi-pod on a hard surface seems to be of concern and talk anytime this issue is brought up.

Just for the record, I have shot groups using them that are very close to what the rifle has been proven to be capable of.
Some of those groups have measured ½ -¾ inch. (3 shots @ 100Y)

SingleShotLover wrote:
Even then, slight deviations in hold and position can still change POI.

SSL, How much deviation are you seeing at 300-500?
Is it enough for me to be concerned with shooting at deer?

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Bi-pod v sandbags !!! Reply with quote

I have an idea about incorporating a piece of sorbothane material underneath the legs of the bi-pod!!! (the stuff some recoil pads are made of)
Or maybe even making some kind of a re-placement for the hard rubber feet that’s on my Harris.
I got it figured that this should absorb some energy and take the bounce out of it.

Does anyone know where I can get such material?

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