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Winchester closing its plant
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

1895ss wrote:
Seriously though I think Winchester will be back in operation before you know it. There is no way that they weren't making money.

A few years ago I went down and ordered a Left Handed M70 in 7STW. They informed me it would be 3 months until delivery. I was fine with that. 3 months go buy and I call the dealer and he says "nope no word yet on it". I call back the next month... and the next. The dealer (great guy) pestered them often to get info and Winchester continually said "it should be just a few more weeks".

Finally 11 months after I placed my order, with hunting season WEEKS away I called the dealer and told him to give them HELL over it and find out just when it was going to be delivered. Winchester at that point finally fessed up and actually admitted they dont do a run on rifles until they have 300 orders... 11 months after I placed my order they had exactly 63 orders. They knew they had no-where near the number of orders to make a run yet they kept saying "oh its just another couple of weeks".

I cancelled my order immediately.

Ironically I found a mint condition M70 LH in 7STW for sale on Gunsamerica.com and contacted the seller. He was very forward with information and after a week of exchanging info, pictures etc etc I bought it from him for $450 (he threw in Leupold bases and rings and RCBS dies).

While I like the rifle, I was extrememly disappointed over trying to order a new rifle from Winchester. If this is the case with other buyers I can see why they might be in trouble.


-DallanC
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

Quote::
Winchester at that point finally fessed up and actually admitted they dont do a run on rifles until they have 300 orders

300 Orders ?!?! Shocked

Thats insane. Making 50 or 25 or 10 shouldnt take too long unless they get rid of all there tooling after each time they make a production run. Confused

I am however glad you got the rifle you wanted Smile

Dimitri
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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

There will be used Winchesters on the used gun racks for many years to come. I believe this is what may happen when a foreign country owns an American plant. All the best...
Gil

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Quote::
Winchester at that point finally fessed up and actually admitted they dont do a run on rifles until they have 300 orders

300 Orders ?!?! Shocked

Thats insane. Making 50 or 25 or 10 shouldnt take too long unless they get rid of all there tooling after each time they make a production run. Confused

I am however glad you got the rifle you wanted Smile

Dimitri

While they make money it's not very "cost effective" for the labor involved to run a short production. You figure, for every $500 rifle, Winchester will sell it to a distributer like Davidsons or others for $250......then Davidsons sells it to what ever FFL store for $350 and they sell it for $500.

While figures aren't exact, the point of a short production would put them out of business sooner than later. For all the machine tooling involved, lets say 10 people work on the project of changing over calibers. Now for argument sake....lets say the (start up) job is 20 hours for 10 people with 5 hours of QC test runs. Each employee probably makes $25/hr and QC (lets say 2 employees) make $30/hr (these are rough figures i'm based on a minimum expierenced machinist wage) 25x10=250 250x20=5000 30x2=60 60x5=300.

Ok, so far we have $5300 spent of a 50 gun production of a rifle they sell for $250 which then $12,500 is to be made. Now minus the start up cost of $5300 which is $7200 and if you divide that by the number of guns you are producing....you have only made $144 (so far) per rifle......But, you still have to produce the 50 rifles, pay the production crew and smiths their wages, plus maint. on machines and the tool room workers that keep your bits, inserts, broaches, drills, and what ever in spec. and sharp Shocked .

Sorry to get all technical on ya but you say ya want to machine and smith, but once you actually break it down, you realize what you "have to" charge and see how cost effective it will be for tooling, production and labor Cool .

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

10Ring,

Thanks for the reply I did kinda forget about set up costs. But I figured they would be minimal my mistake. Sad

I guess I think too "small". I mean tooling needs to be replaced and everything as things wear down and the like so I figured replacment probrobly doesnt take too long and doesnt really cost them much more Sad

Dimitri

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

Dimitri,

Yes, tooling does need sharpening and replacing (that's pretty cheap)......but with changeovers you need to change fixtures and chucks as well :wink:.

And it's not a mistake upon your behalf....you are still fresh in the field gettin your feet wet Very Happy I was there too, but luckily learned marketing and financing when i was still in hieskoo :lol:.

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

515034s10ring wrote:
, but luckily learned marketing and financing when i was still in hieskoo :lol:.

What is hieskoo ....... Very Happy is it something to do with the military or what...?
Just wondering.. Very Happy Very Happy

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

No!!! It has nothing to do with the Military...10ring just can't spell. That's all...(high school) Very Happy

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

10Ring,

I never took a single bussince course in hieskoo sorry Very Happy

hieskoo = some weird form of highschool never heard of it before Laughing

Edit: Apparently Bushmaster posted that just before me while I was posting.

Dimitri
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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

"High" school Confused Never touched the stuff Laughing

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
10Ring,

I never took a single bussince course in hieskoo sorry Very Happy

hieskoo = some weird form of highschool never heard of it before Laughing

Edit: Apparently Bushmaster posted that just before me while I was posting.

Dimitri

I wish I had gone to "hieskoo" , sounds way more interesting than the school I went to. Very Happy Very Happy

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

Yup...10ring (515034s) We can tell... Poke

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515034s10ring
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
10Ring,

I never took a single bussince course in hieskoo sorry Very Happy

hieskoo = some weird form of highschool never heard of it before Laughing

Edit: Apparently Bushmaster posted that just before me while I was posting.

Dimitri

Bussince??? You mean bizznis Confused Laughing ROFL

Bushy don't know what's happening either so don't worry about him Confused Censored Haha Hiding

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

10Ring,

Sorry for my horried spelling but my english mark is alright at a B. Wink

God bless spellcheckers.

I wonder if it was possible to avoid this situation that Winchester had. Or how cheap the rights to the name to make rifles would be Laughing

Dimitri

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1895ss
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester closing its plant Reply with quote

I sure hope the people at Winchester can spell better then some of you guys......!! Of course I can see now why some people used their 30-30's as "jack Handles"..... , that's possibly what it says on some 30-30 winchesters. ROFL Hiding Point

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